The MM Network

[Goodspeed]

#1 - Don't move to Arlington/Alexandria just to see what you have been missing and then quote later in your post you don't like the bar scene. However, Ashburn and Potomac is pretty devoid of active young professionals.

I think on the dating scene you are too old and not the "personality" to enjoy meeting people out at bars. This is where Arlington/Alexandria/DC can come into play however.  Avoid the bars and instead invest yourself in social groups.  Ie: cycling classes, workout groups, yoga, kickball, team sports.  The people 28-35 that are still bar-hopping IMO are not who you are after.  You may not initially want to do any of those things; but looking back I met a ton of eligible women through those events, work, and then ultimately the dog park worked for Jess.  But I didnt go into any of them specifically looking; just made sure I was social vs standing in a corner.  Going to a cycling class or dog park in Ashburn is low on % wise for single women vs Arlington/Alexandria/DC.

Online dating should also not be out of your viewpoint; but the one date I ever did based on that was horrible (I tried to suck it up and see if maybe it would work out).  That said, a metric load of my friends including my best friend (jason), my best college friend (Mike) and my sister met their significant others online.

#3 - Salary.  Do what makes you happy.  Right now you are single, I would say take it and request the increase.  You are already at a job change; you can always change again in a year.

I was too focused on fun and racing early on in my career and I suffer from being underpaid, not from my colleagues; but really from narrowing my career to having LIFE vs work.  Do I regret it? NO.  Is it a little bummer to know my future earnings are low?  Yes and it's only now that I am backing off racing as much; that I am starting to look at alternative careers/business ventures.  It's limiting though since I wont give up the life aspect, so I almost feel in a rut with work but really happy about life.  That's a decision you need to make; and no answer is right unless it's right for you.

Quoting DJ first here as he addresses some of the finer points of the quality-of-life questions, and I want to provide some clarity to get around some ideas & assumptions I wanna address   (s'all good buddy, I'm gonna lay out some more detail).  To anyone not in the know, I was not a terribly social animal in college - more the brooding Mr. Darcy than the charming Mr. Wickham.  I was awkward and somewhat shy and girls were hard.  I'm proud to say I'm a far cry from that kinda weird kinda socially awkard JMU kid!

I set up the Ashburn vs. Arlington question re: the single life as I know full well DC, Arlington, & Alexandria are where easily 80-90+ % of active, younger, educated, & interesting single women are.  It was a shoddy equation on my part for me to dismiss Arlington = bars and me = no likey bars.  I know Arlington has a lot more to offer than the bar scene which you highlighted.  You wouldn't know since I don't blast my private life out there terribly much but I've already done and succeeded with meeting and dating lots of great women with much of what you put forth - I firmly believe in bettering one's self through activities that interest them, and that growth will naturally attract the right people into your orbit.  

I'm interested in all sorts of active things that would heighten the chances of meeting the right person - the reason I shot down the bar idea is I find people who center their social lives on drinking and hanging out in dimly lit, loud places not terribly interesting.  I'm totally comfortable talking up a crowd of people, but I'd rather do that on a trail or at a class than at a bar.

I was hoping there was some glimmer that the singles life is, if not as awesome as Arlington, then at least decent-to-good out Ashburn way and what you & others are telling me is that it's firmly not.  Message received loud and clear.  Again, the dating angle isn't my highest priority as I value a lot of other things in my life too - and for reasons of wanting to move I'm not looking for a girl that's hell-bent on staying in DC - but I could see being in an area totally devoid of single women being a real struggle if that's how Ashburn really is.  

Go Goodspeed! Make moves!


Let me be the first to say, No no no no no. There is no reason to move further out than you do now and I can attest that being an hour or more from home every day is the worst. 

If you ARE getting a pay bump, you could definitely find a spot near an orange or silver line that has everything you want. You've been to our house. We are are a 15 walk to the metro and a cheap 15 minute Uber from Arlington. 

The dating scene west or Reston is complete trash for my age group, but I don't know about late 20s. 

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Thanks!  What was your situation (where was home? work?) when you did the hour-plus commute?  Believe me, I'm more having to convince myself Ashburn-area is the answer than I am convincing myself Arlington/points closer is not.  Objectively speaking, there are reasons - more greenery, more space and easier to keep that dog I want, convenience for outdoor activities, etc.

Maybe I'm not fully appreciating how easy it might be to do all of those things in Arlington, however.

Some of you may be typing out your response now that I'd be insane to consider working in DC and living in/near Ashburn, and you may be right, but - every source I've read says the Loudoun County commuter buses take 1 hr to get to DC if you leave early enough (~6:30), and then it's a 25 minute walk or 13 minute metro ride from Metro Center to my proposed client site.  Is this a terrible idea?  It's lengthy based on time, but a breeze in that it'd be a carefree commute where I'd just sit back and listen to a podcast or read a book.  Maybe that makes it moot, I have no idea - I do know it'd cost ~$5k annually in public transport costs, but that'd be countered with less paid for gas, wear and tear, and lower insurance cost hopefully on my own vehicle.  If anyone has done this, I'm all ears.

My wife does this now.  Bus -> Weihle Metro -> Metro Center -> Union Station.  The first year she was doing this, it was hell of an adjustment, but after a month or two she got to work from home 1-2 days a week and was rolling out of the office at 3-3:30 and this was making it tolerable.....Until she changed jobs/companies and got promoted while working for the same customer, the WFH went away for a while.  While the WFH is back now the hours are sometimes shit compounded with the pressure of being a manager on customer site hasnt been the easiest thing, to say the least.  After 2.5 years of this she's looking for another job closer to home now.  

I would say as a young single dude, its probably tolerable and doing it for a year could land you a solid step up in experience/responsibility and open up more options later that dont involve humping it down to DC every day - but keeping the hours sane and negotiating some WFH days will make it more manageable.  I would absolutely not sit in a car for this commute....  I think being in Potomac falls limits your commute options though, its that bus or nothing - if you're off the W&OD you have metro, bus, or bike commute available.  Not sure if there's a slug line out here or not.  

FWIW, I lived in falls church and could walk to the metro for a long time and it was a really nice spot.  I was WFH most of the time but had to head into DC 1-2 days a week and it made it super convenient, and it was close to a lot of other stuff nearby that was nice.  It had all the convenience of arlington/alexandria but cheaper.

That reminds me of one question I'd have to firm up - the actual workday timing they expect and the WFH possibility.  The Ashburn-ish idea goes belly up if I can't get on a bus at ~3:30 to get home at a reasonable hour.  Client wants regular 4pm meetings?  I'm screwed.  Thanks for the input and the stamina question for that kind of a commute is a big one.  I just spent 50 minutes in the car to go like 12 miles so I'm not sure if I should feel great or terrible about the prospect of taking 1.5 hours to do 35 miles.

Dude, Goodspeed, fuck no to Ashburn. It's fine if you are also working out there, but you are young and single and hip and cool and do not need to be living out that far relying on a damn commuter bus to go all the way into Farragut or wherever in DC five days a week.

I'm steps away from the Clarendon metro stop and while I'm not really into "the boozy Arlington thing," I cannot express enough how much I LOVE walking everywhere. My bank, barbershop, two grocery stores, several coffee shops, and some incredible food are all a quick walk away from my front door. Metro can get me most places I need and it's at the end of my street. I park under my building and drive as needed. 

My dating life improved drastically when I moved here. There is a difference between "kinda making it work because I like him but he lives in... Ashburn" and "he's a 15 minute Metro ride away and we can easily do dinner or whatever several times a week."

Arlington/DC is the better approach in your case.

Also, your job opp sounds great but if you want to look elsewhere, email me your resume. We are hiring for people like you and huge on culture fit/work-to-live attitude.

You make a great point about walking everywhere for a lot of things and stuff - and that sounds pretty rad.  I really have to pause and zoom out a bit to realize how totally reliant I am on driving large-ish distances to live the life I have now, and seeing that for what it is - I'm not sure I like it.  If Arlington has the shops I need to live a healthy lifestyle, a park or two I can take a not-tiny dog to, and all the benefits we've already discussed I'd be running out of reasons to not seriously consider it.  If I can walk everywhere and build a low-profile little home gym setup in my apartment (or use other facilities if they're decent) I could see that working out.  On the other hand, being 10 minutes from lots of trails and parks in Ashburn is also excellent - less incidental exercise, but better purposeful exercise.

Funny you say all this, as I remember when I went to your apartment warming party, I parked - walked around the corner - and kind of marveled at how everything was right. there.  You made me remember that feeling and it wasn't bad!

I'll definitely send you my resume in the next few days - was NOT expecting that but that is awesome, thanks!

Dude, Goodspeed, fuck no to Ashburn

Potomac Falls isnt really Ashburn, which I find a pretty hateful existence, but its not great and still suburban hell to me and you're still tethered to your car for, well, everything.

Whatever, none of it is super walkable and would take eons to get in to work or fun-with-friends-and-dates every day.

If it helps, the spot I found is right here:



In its own little bubble it's really very pretty, quiet, and very green - all of which I love.  But yeah, on the extreme opposite end of being walkable, other than to that park.

Anyways, thank you all VERY much for the responses so far.  I read and thought about all your comments on my phone during the day (no posting to MM since gov equipment - sigh.) and my next meeting is this Friday.  I think I'll take some time this weekend to check out more apts in Arlington and generally walk around the area to see what's up.  Thank you again!

[Apoc]

I lived in Ashburn in my late 20s / early 30s and was a massive proponent at the time. It's great if you have kids or are married and just want to watch movies every night (what we did), but I think a single guy would find the goings rough. There is just less opportunity to meet people because they're all driving to their zillion family things. If we wanted to go out with friends, we had to drive inside the beltway or host a BBQ. That sucked.

[HAULN-SS]

I don't guess I'll weigh in one way or the other, but I think all of these people commenting either haven't lived in the Ashburn area, or haven't for a long time. There are a couple of distinct "town center" areas that are now in that suburbia that haven't been there long, but are now chock full of restaurants, bars, etc. One loudoun probably has 10 restaurants/bars, top golf, draft house, massive park, etc etc. The brambleton area really blew up too, and will have 2 train stations in the next couple years. I guess my question to you would be why do you think that only the DC job will have any status/opportunity opening for you? The 28 corridor is slam packed with contractors and government offices now, doing important work. Nobody outside this area is going to ask you if you worked in the DC city limits.

[*insertusernamehere*]

I'm gonna chime in too.

I go from exactly where the map says "seven corners" to sterling and back everyday. In the morning my drive is 45mins and in the evening my drive is 60mins. I take route 7, reverse commute and tysons is the only part of the drive that is bad, morning and evening. West of Tysons, morning and evening, i'm doing 70mph and the other side is doing 0, seriously. I'll send pics in groupme tomorrow. 

Why are you considering the two greatest extremes? I'm in falls church and directly behind my house is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Mile_Run_Trail which is fantastic. The parts of Arlington like where Jake lives is 13mins away, the metro is 8mins away, the DC line is 4 miles away (drive time will vary depending on time of day), alexandria is 20mins away and the price of an apt can also be a good bit cheaper, but at least even if you end up shelling out the same money your access to some green space is greater. Is there a reason why it seems you're ruling out that little 495 corridor from Merrifield to Tysons? 

If it counts for anything, I'm rather satisfied with my location in falls church and I'm in DC (and all over the DMV!) damn near every weekend. One of my roommates works in DC and some days he makes it home before I do! As long as you're inside the beltway, wherever, you're fine. Outside the beltway...eeehhhh. So shop around and find which areas between tysons, arlington and alexandria fit well.

[Senor_Taylor]

Let me chime in and say that i actually lived in Potomac falls right where Goodspeed is suggesting. One Loudoun is NOT that great. There are exactly 5 bars to go to, 3 of which are incredibly expensive. World of Beer has live music though, which is fun.

It wasn't awful, but I wouldn't go back unless I had a job out there. Doing anything on the weekends that was in DC was such a pain. There is nothing up there that isn't to be had closer into DC and the rent isn't any cheaper either.

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[Jake]

I don't guess I'll weigh in one way or the other, but I think all of these people commenting either haven't lived in the Ashburn area, or haven't for a long time. There are a couple of distinct "town center" areas that are now in that suburbia that haven't been there long, but are now chock full of restaurants, bars, etc. One loudoun probably has 10 restaurants/bars, top golf, draft house, massive park, etc etc. The brambleton area really blew up too, and will have 2 train stations in the next couple years. I guess my question to you would be why do you think that only the DC job will have any status/opportunity opening for you? The 28 corridor is slam packed with contractors and government offices now, doing important work. Nobody outside this area is going to ask you if you worked in the DC city limits.

I grew up there and know the area very well. My parents just moved away three months ago.

Still not an interesting place to live with any sort of culture, IMO. Great if you are married, have kids, are very religious, or are some combination of the three, but otherwise the appeal isn't there vs many other areas.

I love driving and the best thing has been moving somewhere that makes driving optional.



Goodspeed - dog park is right next to my place and the big goodboi I watched last month loved it.


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[.RJ]

I don't guess I'll weigh in one way or the other, but I think all of these people commenting either haven't lived in the Ashburn area, or haven't for a long time. There are a couple of distinct "town center" areas that are now in that suburbia that haven't been there long, but are now chock full of restaurants, bars, etc.

That you still have to drive to.  And then drive to everywhere else.  And so forth.  A wegmans and a rack of mediocre chain restaurants are predictable and convenient, but those are literally your only choices.  Hell, Herndon would be better if you want cheaper & metro accessible, and easy outdoors accessible things. But if the outdoorsy things are where you're at, you'll figure out out no matter where you live - plenty of stuff around inside the beltway - W&OD, Custis, 4 Mile run trails, dog parks, frisbee golf at bluemont, easy access to PHT, etc - when I was down there it made riding out through DC and out to montgomery county roads really easy which was nice. Or out this way you've got great falls/riverbend/seneca parks, lake fairfax, etc, and its a little easier to get out towards shenandoah/fort valley/loudon county riding.

[Apoc]

Yeeeaaah, a bunch of strip mall town centers isn't exactly a draw.

I can't even fathom living in the suburbs any more... and I have a kid. Being able to walk or take public transport to things is really nice. We still drive to places like the zoo and aquarium, but taking the bus to a bunch of breweries to drown my parental sorrows is clutch.

[JustinG]

Derecola.....are you trolling the people of Denver?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/26/us/google...index.html

[WRXtranceformed]

Wife and I are starting to talk more seriously about moving back up north. Probably not any time soon because we actually do like it down here, but being so far from most of our family with the little one on the way is kind of tough. While it has a lot of benefits and most of our neighbors are cool, there is a lot about suburban cul de sac life that I don't love. The idea is that we would move onto my family farm and either renovate the main house or build a new one.

Pros:
- I do like the Leesburg area, especially where are farms are
- Surrounded by protected historic farmland that will never be developed, our farmland is not historic (intentionally) so we have more flexibility to build
- Dad still lives on the farm and approves and encourages it
- Close to Dulles airport for work travel
- We have a tenant house or a second main house we could live in if we did a new build, while it's under construction
- The property is stunning, circa 1700s Quaker farm with sunset view of the Blue Ridge and not staring at developments
- Better schools, very good quality of living, there's even more stuff in Leesburg and nearby than there used to be
- I could conceivably build whatever I wanted there

Cons:
- Building a house on your own land is still expensive, we'd probably have to drill another well and definitely do a new septic tank / field
- I'll still be paying for a partial mortgage after we would sell our house here, even though we own the land
- I loved growing up on a farm but it does feel a little isolated when you're young. Had to drive minimum 15-20 minutes to get to a friend's house
- Both the main house and tenant house need work for longish term living while a new house would be built
- Renovating the historic main house would be an option, but really massively expensive / ie. the cost of a new home build to do it right (added bonus is that it does have a nice in ground pool that needs work and a whole house generator)
- Property is on miles of dirt roads and our driveway is an old, gutted out wagon road. It pretty much would crush the hopes of ever having a fun car again
- Very few if any high speed internet options, this may be alleviated as 4G and 5G towers continue to build out in the NOVA area

There are a few more things there but we've got a lot to think about. Living down here has really helped us build wealth more than I would have been able to in the DC area, but I'm still a long way off of my target goals. Our primary motivator is the peace, quiet, quality of life and family we'd get being back up there.

[.RJ]

 Our primary motivator is the peace, quiet, quality of life and family we'd get being back up there.

Those are some rosy tinted glasses of this area there, hombre.

While day to day life might be peaceful and quiet, every time you have to drive into leesburg you'll probably want to stab yourself in the eyeballs.  Also consider that if you build a house on your family land, that money is gone, you'll never be able to sell it and get anything back out of compared to buying elsewhere.  And dont think that land wont be developed, either, the county supervisors around here have given the keys to the castle to the property/data center developers.  Hell, I'd rather just live in Leesburg proper and you can walk/bike to most everything you'd need....

[Apoc]

Derecola.....are you trolling the people of Denver?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/26/us/google...index.html

My boss was dealing with this Monday. If there's one thing this job has taught me, it's always, always, always look at your full route with satellite view before blindly following directions from the lady in the box.

---

 Our primary motivator is the peace, quiet, quality of life and family we'd get being back up there.

Those are some rosy tinted glasses of this area there, hombre.

While day to day life might be peaceful and quiet, every time you have to drive into leesburg you'll probably want to stab yourself in the eyeballs.  Also consider that if you build a house on your family land, that money is gone, you'll never be able to sell it and get anything back out of compared to buying elsewhere.  And dont think that land wont be developed, either, the county supervisors around here have given the keys to the castle to the property/data center developers.  Hell, I'd rather just live in Leesburg proper and you can walk/bike to most everything you'd need....

The difference is all the things Lee mentioned have to do with where his family farm is already. I get the impression if it was Nebraska and near family, all the pros/cons given would be the same. I don't think he cares much about walking/biking to things, as he's talking about getting out of the suburbs and into the rurals.

[G.Irish]

All I can say for now is that Falls Church is a great compromise. You can get a place within walking distance to either East or West Falls Church metro, or within bicycling distance. Failing that, there's a decent amount of parking at WFC and there are commuter bus routes to both.

It's a short drive into Arlington or DC if you want to party and it's a short drive to a number of parks (Fountainhead for example). Falls Church doesn't have as many options for apartments/condos though.

[.RJ]

I don't think he cares much about walking/biking to things, as he's talking about getting out of the suburbs and into the rurals.

It aint going to be the rurals that much longer, I'm afraid

https://www.loudountimes.com/news/rural-...cb2ef.html

60,000 new residental units in the next 20 years.

[Apoc]

I love the comments on that article.

Skyprince Nov 20, 2018 11:36pm
When will LoCo realize that as a government entity they should not be responsible for providing housing just because there is a demand for it. The rest of the country does not do that. Everyone does not have to live in Loudoun, they can live where their income allows them to find housing that suits their salary level.

Charles Houston Feb 12, 2019 5:37pm
Why on earth must we accommodate "housing demand"? Good growth = NO GROWTH

[.RJ]

County supervisors have already fucked up fairfax county, lets hope they dont do the same to Loudon.

[Senor_Taylor]

Accepted my offer and put in my two weeks. So full of joy, dread, happiness, anxiety.

Ended up getting a 15k bump and I'm just shy of my goal to make 100k within 2 years of being graduated.

[Kaan]

that's why I need my +50 acres now... so I'm the only person in my neighborhood.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Wife and I are starting to talk more seriously about moving back up north.  Probably not any time soon because we actually do like it down here, but being so far from most of our family with the little one on the way is kind of tough.  While it has a lot of benefits and most of our neighbors are cool, there is a lot about suburban cul de sac life that I don't love.  The idea is that we would move onto my family farm and either renovate the main house or build a new one.

I think raising children where your family is a hugely critical piece that is very helpful.  Not only to you but your child.

That said, I would say no to a farm.  I lived in a neighborhood growing up where I had to be driven anywhere to be around kids my age.  That SUCKED and was really hard in elementary school/middle/high school combined with the swap from private school.  I was always super jealous of my friends that had neighborhood friends.

We love our new neighborhood where our neighbors are our friends; and kids are outside playing and it's "walk to everything" (pool/playground/fields/lake).  Being secluded as an adult = awesome.  Being secluded as a kid = much harder. I didnt originally want neighbors I could see; but knew it was important for my children.

[.RJ]

Ended up getting a 15k bump and I'm just shy of my goal to make 100k within 2 years of being graduated.

Thats much faster than I got there, so congrats.

I also fucked off my whole 20's and didnt invest in my career at all, and the whole housing crash economic crisis, etc....