The MM Network

[Apoc]

Never worked there, but I imagine it's a lot like this.

[.RJ]

Booz is 90% federal gov contracting, with everything that comes with that both good and bad.

[Senor_Taylor]

Andrew Castro works there now if you want a man on the side.

When I say work, I mean he's on the payroll. Don't know if he's ever at work.

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[Senor_Taylor]

So, I just got a call from a friend from a dev company in Herndon called Ideation looking for a referral from me for an entry level dev role (that pays more than my current role). I don't know much about the company, but the guy was the other lead dev on my capstone group, so I trust him. If anyone is looking for something, let me know and I'll throw your name in the ring.

[JPolen01]

Is anyone familiar the with IT company Fixt? I got a linkedin message with a request for an interview and an insane base salary. Not really looking to move jobs, the money is extremely attractive though...

[WRXtranceformed]

Is anyone familiar the with IT company Fixt? I got a linkedin message with a request for an interview and an insane base salary. Not really looking to move jobs, the money is extremely attractive though...

Have not, but we're hiring enterprise software sales reps if anyone is interested.  Preference is remote in Charlotte, Raleigh, Chicago or Dallas but I think they are making exceptions for people with a record of overachieving.  Just give your boy a holler

[CaptainHenreh]

Well  I wasn't sure if I wanted to post this in here or in "Grind my Gears". 

I get an email from <technology company> recruiter about a Happy Hour they're having for potential job candidates. I applied with <TC> for a CONUS IA position hoping to use my shiney new Master's degree in the real world. I didn't get an interview (and didn't really expect one tbh, as I have no clearance) but I guess my email and shit were in their recruiting bank so I got this email for the happy hour. I thinks to myself, shit yeah, free drinks, talk to recruiter, done deal. I send email to recruiter, she sends me back a questionnaire so I can go to the happy hour. I fill out said little survey (basically my resume + salary requirements + no I don't mind working there) and email it to her. Important to note, one of the questions was:

"What position are you most interested in Software Engineer, Software Architect, Agile Release Train Engineer, or DevOps Engineer)? Feel free to provide a brief note why you might be a good match for this opportunity."

I'm really trying to get into Security (again, I applied for an IA position with <TC>) and I don't wanna be a programmer soooooooooooo, DevOps Engineer I guess? 

This was on 20JULY. Just so everyone's clear on the timeline. 

A week passes. Happy Hour has come and gone, no word. Another week passes, I get this email (8AUG):
 "I hope this message finds you well. If you are still interested and available, we would like to get you scheduled for a phone interview with our team. Please let me know your availability for this week and early next week."

I reply, next day, "Yep just let me know when!"

crickets.

More Crickets.

I do some shit.

I'm cleaning out my email and realize Hey! Dis bitch never emailed me back.

I emailed her last Thursday. (28 September)

 She goes, "My apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I have been at an offsite all-hands and training the last couple of weeks and just playing catch up. If you are still available and interested, I would like to schedule you next week for a technical phone interview." I give her my availability and she says "ok great how about thursday?" I say:

"Yes, that works for me! Sounds perfect. Is there anything in my resume that you'd like me to highlight in preparation? Or just a general technical knowledge."

Because at this point I'm thinking like, I'm gonna talk with like a hiring manager or something, they've seen my resume and think I could probably be an asset and they're going to assess whether I'm bullshitting or not.

She says, "Rex, The technical questions are more to see how you think, logic/reasoning, algorithms, data structures, etc."

Ok cool. So it's probably what I'm thinking then. I'm thinking encryption algorithms, best practices, etc etc.

No.

Nooooooooooooooope.

I get on the call. Jump right in. They want to know about my EC2 experience and would I consider myself a Jenkins expert? I do my best to answer their questions and show my ability to adapt and wrap my brain around a new idea. "I...um,  I've used Docker a bit, I've used BMC's cloud automation toolkit and VMWare labs, ah, I'm afraid I only have a passing familiarity with Jenkins and continuous integration, ummm..." Second round of questions starts with "So what led you to apply for a Senior DevOps position with a DBA background?"

Whoa. Hold Up. 
  
I... Never applied for a Senior DevOps engineer. FUUUUUUUCKKKKK  There's 7 people on this call, plus myself. It's a hiring committee for a Senior DevOps Engineer, they're looking for someone to transform their dev team into a Full DevOps automation programming house. AKA: Not fucking ME, at all. Fuck. I explain that I got this interview as a result of inquiring about a Happy Hour with a <TC> recruiter, didn't realize I'd be interviewing for a position, Terribly sorry I'll still try to answer your questions as best I can but please keep in mind that all of my dev experience has been in environment deployment and maintenance, I am not, and have no wish to be, a programmer.

Final question is "Fizzbuzz", fuck me, I dance around it a bit, completely flustered at this point and then finally I'm like "hold on lemme write this out on paper" and he's like Oh  yeah, i should have told you that! Taking it out of my head and onto paper. Four if/else loops, blah blah blah, i(mod(3/5) etc etc. This guy seems pleased enough I guess. Still don't wanna be a programmer.

I thank everyone and hang up and pour myself a glass of Jefferson's Reserve, utterly disheartened.  

I'm composing a draft to the recruiter now in an attempt to get all the committee member's emails, try and send them a thank you but JFC, I could actually have done ok with this interview had I 24 hours to prepare for a DevOps engineer interview. Instead I prepped for "technical questions are more to see how you think, logic/reasoning, algorithms, data structures, etc." Spent a whole half hour going back over public key exchange so that I could demonstrate it in layman's terms...you know, instead of googling "what the fuck is DevOps." which would have been infinitely more helpful. 

I know that recruiters aren't like, experts in the field in which they recruit or anything. But I think at the very least a little document of "Here's what your interview is about here is who you're talking to, and here's the position listing" would have been the very least courtesy to show, am I wrong here?

[Apoc]

Years ago I showed up for an interview with a defense contractor and was expected to give a presentation. I was never told this and when I tried to explain, the committee I was standing in front of told me I was definitely informed... even though none of them were in on conversations with the recruiter. I didn't get the job.

[WRXtranceformed]

You're not wrong, for a recruiter to schedule an interview of that magnitude without preparing you at all is not only negligent of their job, it's also IMO pretty indicative of a company you don't want to work for (based on the series of exchanges so far).

I mean most company recruiters I've ever worked with are JV squad at best, there are generally no incentives in place for them to place jobs quickly and efficiently (unlike third party recruiters that work on fees and are usually hyper-focused on preparing candidates for interviews because they don't get paid unless they get placed)

[Senor_Taylor]

Well  I wasn't sure if I wanted to post this in here or in "Grind my Gears". 

I get an email from <technology company> recruiter about a Happy Hour they're having for potential job candidates. I applied with <TC> for a CONUS IA position hoping to use my shiney new Master's degree in the real world. I didn't get an interview (and didn't really expect one tbh, as I have no clearance) but I guess my email and shit were in their recruiting bank so I got this email for the happy hour. I thinks to myself, shit yeah, free drinks, talk to recruiter, done deal. I send email to recruiter, she sends me back a questionnaire so I can go to the happy hour. I fill out said little survey (basically my resume + salary requirements + no I don't mind working there) and email it to her. Important to note, one of the questions was:

"What position are you most interested in Software Engineer, Software Architect, Agile Release Train Engineer, or DevOps Engineer)? Feel free to provide a brief note why you might be a good match for this opportunity."

I'm really trying to get into Security (again, I applied for an IA position with <TC>) and I don't wanna be a programmer soooooooooooo, DevOps Engineer I guess? 

This was on 20JULY. Just so everyone's clear on the timeline. 

A week passes. Happy Hour has come and gone, no word. Another week passes, I get this email (8AUG):
 "I hope this message finds you well. If you are still interested and available, we would like to get you scheduled for a phone interview with our team. Please let me know your availability for this week and early next week."

I reply, next day, "Yep just let me know when!"

crickets.

More Crickets.

I do some shit.

I'm cleaning out my email and realize Hey! Dis bitch never emailed me back.

I emailed her last Thursday. (28 September)

 She goes, "My apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I have been at an offsite all-hands and training the last couple of weeks and just playing catch up. If you are still available and interested, I would like to schedule you next week for a technical phone interview." I give her my availability and she says "ok great how about thursday?" I say:

"Yes, that works for me! Sounds perfect. Is there anything in my resume that you'd like me to highlight in preparation? Or just a general technical knowledge."

Because at this point I'm thinking like, I'm gonna talk with like a hiring manager or something, they've seen my resume and think I could probably be an asset and they're going to assess whether I'm bullshitting or not.

She says, "Rex, The technical questions are more to see how you think, logic/reasoning, algorithms, data structures, etc."

Ok cool. So it's probably what I'm thinking then. I'm thinking encryption algorithms, best practices, etc etc.

No.

Nooooooooooooooope.

I get on the call. Jump right in. They want to know about my EC2 experience and would I consider myself a Jenkins expert? I do my best to answer their questions and show my ability to adapt and wrap my brain around a new idea. "I...um,  I've used Docker a bit, I've used BMC's cloud automation toolkit and VMWare labs, ah, I'm afraid I only have a passing familiarity with Jenkins and continuous integration, ummm..." Second round of questions starts with "So what led you to apply for a Senior DevOps position with a DBA background?"

Whoa. Hold Up. 
  
I... Never applied for a Senior DevOps engineer. FUUUUUUUCKKKKK  There's 7 people on this call, plus myself. It's a hiring committee for a Senior DevOps Engineer, they're looking for someone to transform their dev team into a Full DevOps automation programming house. AKA: Not fucking ME, at all. Fuck. I explain that I got this interview as a result of inquiring about a Happy Hour with a <TC> recruiter, didn't realize I'd be interviewing for a position, Terribly sorry I'll still try to answer your questions as best I can but please keep in mind that all of my dev experience has been in environment deployment and maintenance, I am not, and have no wish to be, a programmer.

Final question is "Fizzbuzz", fuck me, I dance around it a bit, completely flustered at this point and then finally I'm like "hold on lemme write this out on paper" and he's like Oh  yeah, i should have told you that! Taking it out of my head and onto paper. Four if/else loops, blah blah blah, i(mod(3/5) etc etc. This guy seems pleased enough I guess. Still don't wanna be a programmer.

I thank everyone and hang up and pour myself a glass of Jefferson's Reserve, utterly disheartened.  

I'm composing a draft to the recruiter now in an attempt to get all the committee member's emails, try and send them a thank you but JFC, I could actually have done ok with this interview had I 24 hours to prepare for a DevOps engineer interview. Instead I prepped for "technical questions are more to see how you think, logic/reasoning, algorithms, data structures, etc." Spent a whole half hour going back over public key exchange so that I could demonstrate it in layman's terms...you know, instead of googling "what the fuck is DevOps." which would have been infinitely more helpful. 

I know that recruiters aren't like, experts in the field in which they recruit or anything. But I think at the very least a little document of "Here's what your interview is about here is who you're talking to, and here's the position listing" would have been the very least courtesy to show, am I wrong here?

Dang, sorry to hear that man. I can vibe with this in two ways.

First off, technical recruiters don't know shit about the roles they are recruiting for. When I'm on campuses talking to students, any and all technical questions have to come to me, even for positions I have no experience in because I still know more about than the recruiters. For a senior role, I would expect the recruiter to know a bit a more, though.

Secondly, I interviewed at a large firm after having my resume pulled and we got to the technical part of the interview where they asked me "Why do you see yourself as a good fit for this role?"

To which I could only reply "Sir, I don't know what I'm interviewing for. I never applied and no one specificed what type of role I was here for". Granted, looking back, there could have been a better, more generic answer. However, that really soured the whole interview and I didn't get the role.

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[JustinG]

Truth.

In house recruiters are garbage, weeks/months between communications, with sorry I got caught up excuses. The third party folks are on point cause their paycheck depends on placement.

HR process is broken, rabble rabble rabble.....

[CaptainHenreh]

Dang, sorry to hear that man. I can vibe with this in two ways.

First off, technical recruiters don't know shit about the roles they are recruiting for. When I'm on campuses talking to students, any and all technical questions have to come to me, even for positions I have no experience in because I still know more about than the recruiters. For a senior role, I would expect the recruiter to know a bit a more, though.

Secondly, I interviewed at a large firm after having my resume pulled and we got to the technical part of the interview where they asked me "Why do you see yourself as a good fit for this role?"

To which I could only reply "Sir, I don't know what I'm interviewing for. I never applied and no one specificed what type of role I was here for". Granted, looking back, there could have been a better, more generic answer. However, that really soured the whole interview and I didn't get the role.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Yeah, it's just weird to me. If I were going to arrange an interview for someone I would at least be like 'Here's the Position Description and the names & titles of the members of the committee'

Hell, when I was *ON* a hiring committee I still did that when the candidate called in. "Hi, I'm Rex, Senior SQL DBA at JMU" and made sure they had, you know, ACTUALLY APPLIED FOR THE POSITION, which I did not do, lol wtf. I dunno, maybe that's just how it is for recruiters, their job is to get asses in interviews, right? 

[Sijray21]

Seems like that's a tell-tale sign of a place you probably wouldn't like to work unless you needed to...

When interviewing team candidates I actually ask what they think they're applying for first to not waste time (we've had recruiter problems before). Cut to the chase early and if there's an obvious disconnect then it's cut short and we apologize for wasting their time.

[ScottyB]

geez man. if it was me i'd probably be rage-pounding to keys to compose an email to the recruiter to chew them out for being such a reckless, inept asshole. that's so completely unfair to you. i'm really sorry to hear how it went down, that's like a nightmare situation for me. i hate interviews as it is, and being put on the spot for a surprise position with a potentially valuable hire would make me choke so awkwardly i don't even want to think about it.

[Evan]

I think this is what got the ball rolling in the wrong direction

 soooooooooooo, DevOps Engineer I guess? 

I dont think what they were asking was out of line for a devops engineer.
Fizzbuzz and algorithms are out of place for devops, but sounds like you did better than most anyway

Sounds like you are more ops than dev though, and their version of devops is more dev than ops.
Either fits the definition, but I think the industry is trending towards the latter. Infrastructure as code and automated pipelines all the way to prod are becoming standard now.
BUT that disconnect is not really your fault, this is why there are supposed to be pre-screens and at least published job descriptions.

The recruiter sounds like he/she was shit, just like cat breath usually smells like cat food.
When prepping for the interview I always prep against the job description, which sounds like you didnt have so going into a 7 person panel interview blind sounds like about one of the worst possible scenarios.

[Apoc]

I think the industry is trending towards the latter.   Infrastructure as code and automated pipelines all the way to prod are becoming standard now.  

I'm in HR operations, so who the hells knows about the rest of the company, but this is definitely where we're headed. All the scrappy things that weren't bought off the shelf and configured were built and are maintained by the same person. This is especially true because everything is deployed on AWS. Much of my job is to bring more ops to the dev, but the folks doing the work are definitely dev first.

[CaptainHenreh]

I think this is what got the ball rolling in the wrong direction

 soooooooooooo, DevOps Engineer I guess? 

I dont think what they were asking was out of line for a devops engineer.  
Fizzbuzz and algorithms are out of place for devops,   but sounds like you did better than most anyway

Sounds like you are more ops than dev though,  and their version of devops is more dev than ops.
Either fits the definition,  but I think the industry is trending towards the latter.   Infrastructure as code and automated pipelines all the way to prod are becoming standard now.  
BUT that disconnect is not really your fault, this is why there are supposed to be pre-screens and at least published job descriptions.

The recruiter sounds like he/she was shit,  just like cat breath usually smells like cat food.  
When prepping for the interview I always prep against the job description, which sounds like you didnt have so going into a 7 person panel interview blind sounds like about one of the worst possible scenarios.

In case I wasn't clear: The hiring committee & interview was fine. I mean, I sucked at it, but that was due in no large part to my complete lack of preparation. This shit sandwhich we both had to eat wasn't of their making. I also was being a little bit flippant when I said "Sooooooooo DevOps engineer I guess". In my actual response to the recruiters question I highlighted specific things in my work experience and how they might relate, ALL of them being "Ops" related, and me explicitly saying that 100% of my programming and development experience outside of bash, powershell, and HP LoadRunner was academic. 

I agree with your assessment on the motion of the industry. Part of the reason I want to move out of academia (especially Liberal Arts academia, and support of such) is that I feel like the industry is changing a bit, everybody's shit is hosted external and nobody actually cares how it works, so the Keyboard Cowboy Sysadmins keeping stuff in line are largely going away being replaced with SLA's from Amazon or Azure or whatever. Not a landscape I feel highly comfortable in.

[rherold9]

I dont think what they were asking was out of line for a devops engineer.  
Fizzbuzz and algorithms are out of place for devops,   but sounds like you did better than most anyway

EDIT: just saw the article is from 2007. Figures. These college kids are a lot smarter these days. I know because I do Job Fit Interviews for them.

Just wrote the FizzBuzz program out in my IntelliJ in 5 minutes.... I have a degree in CIS (not CS) and only two years experience in a basic software engineer role. People really can't do that? Wow....

Inefficient but base code with old school Java for loop

void class Fizzbuzz () {
int[] list = {1, ...100};
for (int i = 0; int i < list.length; i++){
if (list[i] % 3 = 0) {
System.out.println("Fizz");
}
else if (list[i] % 5 = 0) {
System.out.println("Buzz");
}
else if (list[i] % 3 = 0 && list[i] % 5 = 0){
System.out.println("FizzBuzz");
}
else {
System.out.println(list[i].toString());
}
}
}

Java 8+ loop:

void class Fizzbuzz () {
int[] list = {1, ...100};
for (Int i : list){
if (i % 3 = 0) {
System.out.println("Fizz");
}
else if (i % 5 = 0) {
System.out.println("Buzz");
}
else if (i % 3 = 0 && i % 5 = 0){
System.out.println("FizzBuzz");
}
else {
System.out.println(list[i].toString());
}
}
}

[Evan]

speaking of....

The job market is ridiculous. I got a bitchy note from a recruiter because I turned down a guy with zero experience in *any* part of our tech stack, is on his 4th job in 2018 including a job for 1 month, and is asking for way more money than he is worth.
But he has a clearance, is breathing, and is not currently incarcerated, so I was supposed to hire him.

[.RJ]

But he has a clearance, is breathing, and is not currently incarcerated,  so I was supposed to hire him.

willy wonka golden ticket