Automotive News Discussion

[CaptainHenreh]

Did anyone announce a proper wagon with AWD, great gas mileage, great interior, and a price tag of 25k? If not, no care.

for some definitions of "great interior", what's wrong with the Crosstrek?

[fiveoh2go]

That car has been making 300 hp for 10 years now, it's unacceptable that they haven't moved the game on. Especially now that some other cars in that price range are starting to make really big power (e.g. Mustang GT).

So you think the Mustang GT and STi compete for the same potential buyers cold hard cash?

[Mike]

Did anyone announce a proper wagon with AWD, great gas mileage, great interior, and a price tag of 25k? If not, no care.

for some definitions of "great interior", what's wrong with the Crosstrek?

I detest suby styling and have never enjoyed driving in one.

I've considered a Leggy wagon (like every other asshole in this city who isn't in a Jetta wagon), but i only like the old ones and wife only likes the new ones :/

A used Tiguan might be the perfect fit except only EU gets the DSG. Not sure I want to fully sacrifice my balls yet.

[CaptainHenreh]

Did anyone announce a proper wagon with AWD, great gas mileage, great interior, and a price tag of 25k? If not, no care.

for some definitions of "great interior", what's wrong with the Crosstrek?

I detest suby styling and have never enjoyed driving in one.

So there's...some requirement other than wagon (check) AWD (check) great gas mileage (check) great interior (I think it's fine, so check) and under 25k out the door brandy new? (check).

I mean, if you're trying to uphold an image, I get it. But if you want a capable automobile I just don't really understand the problem unless you drove one and just despised it.

[RawrImAMonster]

That car has been making 300 hp for 10 years now, it's unacceptable that they haven't moved the game on. Especially now that some other cars in that price range are starting to make really big power (e.g. Mustang GT).

So you think the Mustang GT and STi compete for the same potential buyers cold hard cash?

Yep, they are both cars I have looked at buying in the past.

When STi's first came to the US (in 04), they were pretty good performance bargains. 300 hp in a light-ish AWD car made it faster and handle better than the mustang gt (or mach 1 for that matter) at the time. I think fully loaded versions of both cars were just above 30k at that time.

Now, the subaru still has the same amount of power, it costs more, it's slower, heavier and probably doesn't handle as well as a mustang gt. Not to mention the motors aren't particularly reliable, stock or modded.

Subaru seriously needs to step up its game with the STi. It just doesn't compete in the 30-40k performance market anymore. I realize that they are still useful for bad weather and such, but so was the 04 model and it was a good competitor in the 30-40k performance market of the time.

[SlimKlim]

Welcome to MM, where we militantly push whatever car we currently own on other people. Hey Mike, do you have a minute to speak about our new Lord & Savior OptimaTurbo? :lol:

Nah, but for real though, you're fucked if those are your requirements. Time to start prioritizing drivetrain, efficiency, cargo space and styling to see what you really want. Or... can really settle for...

[Jake]

Welcome to MM, where we militantly push whatever car we currently own on other people. Hey Mike, do you have a minute to speak about our new Lord & Savior OptimaTurbo? :lol:

Nah, but for real though, you're fucked if those are your requirements. Time to start prioritizing drivetrain, efficiency, cargo space and styling to see what you really want. Or... can really settle for...

:thumbup:

I've never thought Subarus had nice interiors. Functional, yes, but very low-rent. They have infotainment/navigation systems that were hot shit in 2007, which seems like something Mike cares about. My mom's 2011 Outback has a navigation DVD from 2009 because that's the latest one that's available for the car. Like, come on Subaru, get the details right.

Oh, and CVTs suck.

[fiveoh2go]

That car has been making 300 hp for 10 years now, it's unacceptable that they haven't moved the game on. Especially now that some other cars in that price range are starting to make really big power (e.g. Mustang GT).

So you think the Mustang GT and STi compete for the same potential buyers cold hard cash?

Yep, they are both cars I have looked at buying in the past.

When STi's first came to the US (in 04), they were pretty good performance bargains. 300 hp in a light(ish) AWD car made it faster and handle better than the mustang gt at the time. I think fully loaded versions of both cars were just above 30k at that time.

Now, the subaru still has the same amount of power, it costs more, it's slower, heavier and probably doesn't handle as well as a mustang gt. Not to mention the motors aren't particularly reliable, stock or modded.

Subaru seriously needs to step up its game with the STi. It just doesn't compete in the 30-40k performance market anymore. I realize that they are still useful for bad weather and such, but so was the 04 model and it was a good competitor in the 30-40k performance market of the time.

My Terminator stickered for $33K so that would prob be a better comparison than a regular ol' GT...actually Hot Rod did do that back in their Jan '04 issue...

[RawrImAMonster]

Yep, they are both cars I have looked at buying in the past.

When STi's first came to the US (in 04), they were pretty good performance bargains. 300 hp in a light(ish) AWD car made it faster and handle better than the mustang gt at the time. I think fully loaded versions of both cars were just above 30k at that time.

Now, the subaru still has the same amount of power, it costs more, it's slower, heavier and probably doesn't handle as well as a mustang gt. Not to mention the motors aren't particularly reliable, stock or modded.

Subaru seriously needs to step up its game with the STi. It just doesn't compete in the 30-40k performance market anymore. I realize that they are still useful for bad weather and such, but so was the 04 model and it was a good competitor in the 30-40k performance market of the time.

My Terminator stickered for $33K so that would prob be a better comparison than a regular ol' GT...actually Hot Rod did do that back in their Jan '04 issue...

Either way, it doesn't really change my point. The current one's optioned nicely are fairly close in price. The mustang gt has made huge leaps in performance in the last 10 years while the STi hasn't really gotten any better.

[fiveoh2go]

Meh, personally I wouldn't be cross shopping a Mustang GT with an STi. AWD vs RWD. Two door vs four door. Turbo vs N/A. Four cylinder vs V8. Completely different cars built for different purposes. Just too different IMO.

[Ken]

He's not really stating they'd be cross shopped, he's merely making a comparison of situations. GT being the performance version has made great strides, STi being the performance version of it's respective line has not.

We know you wouldn't cross shop them, that's been made clear I think, lol.

[Sully]

Meh, personally I wouldn't be cross shopping a Mustang GT with an STi. AWD vs RWD. Two door vs four door. Turbo vs N/A. Four cylinder vs V8. Completely different cars built for different purposes. Just too different IMO.

I think we all know that you wouldn't "cross" shop anything unless it was between a mustang and like.....

A mustang

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[fiveoh2go]

:lol:

[G.Irish]

So you think the Mustang GT and STi compete for the same potential buyers cold hard cash?

Yep, they are both cars I have looked at buying in the past.

When STi's first came to the US (in 04), they were pretty good performance bargains. 300 hp in a light-ish AWD car made it faster and handle better than the mustang gt (or mach 1 for that matter) at the time. I think fully loaded versions of both cars were just above 30k at that time.

Now, the subaru still has the same amount of power, it costs more, it's slower, heavier and probably doesn't handle as well as a mustang gt. Not to mention the motors aren't particularly reliable, stock or modded.

Subaru seriously needs to step up its game with the STi. It just doesn't compete in the 30-40k performance market anymore. I realize that they are still useful for bad weather and such, but so was the 04 model and it was a good competitor in the 30-40k performance market of the time.

^^^ Perfectly explains my feelings on the STi ^^^

The game has moved on, and Subaru simply hasn't. The Mustang has improved massively, to the point where it weighs almost the same as the STi, has far more power, and handles pretty well. The Camaro is also a very potent competitor in that price range. The Z got lighter and got more power (even if it can't stop...). Even the Hyundai Genesis is making 300 hp (even if it is extremely overweight).

The STi is just no longer a performance bargain, and it's not even improving much over previous generations. On top of that, we don't get the hatchback in the STi or regular WRX trims.

Would I cross shop a STi with a Mustang or Camaro? If I didn't need 4 doors, absolutely. Actually, I probably wouldn't cross shop them because the STi is no longer competitive performance-wise.

I was ready to buy another WRX hatchback or a STi hatch but count me out for now.

[CaptainHenreh]

Count me in the "super disappointed" crowd.

With a the new DI 2.0T in the WRX there's not a single reason, not one, why the STI shouldn't be pushing closer to 400 horsepower than 300.

And also, no wagon on the WRX is just fuckin' stupid. No diesel in the XV pisses me off too. Is subaru trying to out-toyota Toyota?

[RawrImAMonster]

Count me in the "super disappointed" crowd.

With a the new DI 2.0T in the WRX there's not a single reason, not one, why the STI shouldn't be pushing closer to 400 horsepower than 300.

And also, no wagon on the WRX is just fuckin' stupid. No diesel in the XV pisses me off too. Is subaru trying to out-toyota Toyota?

Maybe it will be like the 2010 to 2011 mustang transition. First year doesn't get the new motor, second gets a huge bump in power.

That's probably unlikely, but I hope they aren't going to leave it at 300hp and not use the new FA series motors for the whole generation.

[DierwulfBL]

Im in the STi Drivetrain super disappointed crowd as well. Hatchback? Personally glad its not an option on either, that thing is hideous (to be fair, it took 2 years to accept the GR hatches as not complete turds).

Also everyone saying the STi didnt get faster in OEM trim throughout the years must be dialed in on straight lines. Handling and aero improvements abound from 2004 onward, check the lap times...

[fiveoh2go]

Also everyone saying the STi didnt get faster in OEM trim throughout the years must be dialed in on straight lines. Handling and aero improvements abound from 2004 onward, check the lap times...

That may be, but over the last 10 years even the most bland, pedestrian, point-a-to-point-b, appliance of a car (base model Camry) has gained 16hp.

[CaptainHenreh]

I can deal with no STi hatchback (although are YOU Petter Solberg? No? Then maybe you should shush your mouth about no hatchbacks. He says hatchbacks are more better and who am I to disagree?) but no WRX hatchback is literally a thing that has never happened and it. is. a. TRAVESTY.

[JustinG]

Im just so fucking confused right now.....

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1402_2015_bmw_4_series_gran_coupe_first_look/">http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hat ... irst_look/</a><!-- m -->

I thought the 3 series was the 4 door now, but they have a 4 door 4 series, so is this in between a 3 series sedan and a 5 series? But I thought the 3 series and the 4 series were the same car just coupe vs sedan, and there is a 6 series grancoupe, but I thought a 6 series was just a coupe....so I just....what the......why is it.....I dunno......