WTF should I buy (A consolidated list of bad decisions)

[Senor_Taylor]

Your list is all over the place. Like none of those cars are in the same class, haha.

I'll echo what I said at Verona and say if the Fiesta ST impressed you, you should drive the other hot hatches before you say the FiST is the best. The GTI is better objectively (maybe not as "fun" but that's because it's more refined and handles speed better) and can be made much much faster. The Veloster N seems like a fucking riot for cheap.


If autocross is important to you, take the opportunity to buy something competitive in a class. ND2 Miatas are the new hotness for C Street. I think C.

GTI mops up in G street if you get the right options.

You mentioned Reliability of the FiST over a GTI. Funny enough, mine threw a CEL today for a failed coolant valve and has rust issues on the hatch. WRX is overpriced for what it is and buying used to get your price point will throw your reliability thing out. I feel like a C5 will be the GTO all over again if you buy high mileage.

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[Tyler.M]

Ha, true. My only current class is: When I drive it, does it put a smile on my face?

I've owned a few different things and they all seem to serve a similar purpose. I don't really have a razor focus on what I want to own next; it'll be the next in a long series of fun cars I'll own in my lifetime. What I really need is something that is a good platform to learn how to drive properly on. All of these seem to be decent options.

[Sijray21]

Sounds like to me you need to do a bunch of test drives.

[CaptainHenreh]

Your list is all over the place. Like none of those cars are in the same class, haha.

Wishywashy? In *my* Tyler? It's more likely than you think.

[Tyler.M]

Your list is all over the place. Like none of those cars are in the same class, haha.

Wishywashy? In *my* Tyler? It's more likely than you think.

Damn, this one hits home.  Taylor mentioned I hadn't seen him in 7 years yesterday and then I looked back at some old messages about autocrossed and realized I said I was going to come 4 different times and didn't.  

I got some work to do.

[Senor_Taylor]

Your list is all over the place. Like none of those cars are in the same class, haha.

Wishywashy? In *my* Tyler? It's more likely than you think.

Damn, this one hits home.  Taylor mentioned I hadn't seen him in 7 years yesterday and then I looked back at some old messages about autocrossed and realized I said I was going to come 4 different times and didn't.  

I got some work to do.

When I said 2013, it didn't even strike me that was 7 years. Yikes.

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[ScottyB]

if you're committed to trying to hone your skills you want something that (A) won't cover your mistakes and (B) has low enough consumables that track and autocross sessions are cheap and attainable.

that means something small, light, and basic with skinny tires and low weight so you don't smoke a set of 200TW tires in one weekend or if something breaks you have to wait on $$$ parts and are then gunshy about beating on it. it should be forgiving and welcome attempts at breaking traction and finding the limits. it should have an LSD of some form, and a manual.

- NB/NC miata
- BRZ again
- FiST
- Veloster N
- GTI
- 10th gen Si

NC's are the hot bargain right now and strike a balance between not super old but still cheap and have high potential for more speed, and the aftermarket is strong. i still don't trust the transmissions in the ND's for performance driving.

if you just want a fun street car that can survive performance driving environments, than that list changes considerably. that's where i fall, and why my own list of potential cars was so absurd when i bought 3 years ago.

[Senor_Taylor]

I do not recommend the FiST for autocross/track use. It is fun, but wheels are expensive for what they are since they are a weird bolt pattern, 4x108. No LSD puts it at a big disadvantage, and they eat brake pads and have funky brakes. They are VERY VERY fun, but as far as cheap consumables, not so much.

The GTI is an absolute baller in G Street and the LSD/braking situation is great with the performance package. Obviously running costs are higher, but the return on investment is a lot better.

[Jake]

Spend the money on a Veloster N Performance Package. It's a fucking great car.

[ScottyB]

wheels are expensive for what they are since they are a weird bolt pattern, 4x108.

Ford's still doing that?  that's the stupidest damn thing.  just...why.

[Tyler.M]

if you're committed to trying to hone your skills you want something that (A) won't cover your mistakes and (B) has low enough consumables that track and autocross sessions are cheap and attainable.  

that means something small, light, and basic with skinny tires and low weight so you don't smoke a set of 200TW tires in one weekend or if something breaks you have to wait on $$$ parts and are then gunshy about beating on it.  it should be forgiving and welcome attempts at breaking traction and finding the limits.  it should have an LSD of some form, and a manual.

- NB/NC miata
- BRZ again
- FiST
- Veloster N
- GTI
- 10th gen Si

NC's are the hot bargain right now and strike a balance between not super old but still cheap and have high potential for more speed, and the aftermarket is strong.  i still don't trust the transmissions in the ND's for performance driving.

if you just want a fun street car that can survive performance driving environments, than that list changes considerably.  that's where i fall, and why my own list of potential cars was so absurd when i bought 3 years ago.

These are all great options. I need to drive an NC at some point and see if I can get over the styling a bit. . I lived with an FRS for awhile and LOVED it. Taylor's FiST seems boyishly dumb and fun. Those veloster's are hot and I've driven a base turbo one and loved how quirky it was. GTI I would go for if I lived in a place with more VW dealers, the 'Burg makes german cars tough. and I like the Civics, a lot. They seem way more refined than what I remember a Civic was, in terms of build quality. Why would you recommend a 10th gen over your 8th? My price point?

---

Spend the money on a Veloster N Performance Package. It's a fucking great car.

I really wish an inclusive, friendly publication would do a wonderfully written and thorough review of this car so I would understand what you mean. 

Oh, wait....

[CaptainHenreh]

Spend the money on a Veloster N Performance Package. It's a fucking great car.

i got paid to drive one of these and frankly it as incredible. Stupid fast. Lots of cool tech. Not expensive.

[Tyler.M]

I'm surprised you can customize so much in the driving modes. Also didn't realize adjustable dampers had made it to 30k cars now. That's crazy.

[ScottyB]

Why would you recommend a 10th gen over your 8th? My price point?

i figured if you're cross shopping vettes and veloster N's, and having come from a built GTO, you probably wanted something relatively fast. the 8th was already outclassed in 2006 and any modern turbo DI car will roast it. you can absolutely make them fast, just like anything honda, but i wasn't sure if you wanted to go down that path. its a very entertaining driving experience IMO, and why i went with one.

they are at the bottom of their curve now, though. you can find a really nice coupe under 8 and a decent sedan around 10. extremely functional cars. but the 10th is better in every speed, safety, and economy metric if you were wanting to do DD stuff with it too.

[Tyler.M]

Why would you recommend a 10th gen over your 8th? My price point?

i figured if you're cross shopping vettes and veloster N's, and having come from a built GTO, you probably wanted something relatively fast.  the 8th was already outclassed in 2006 and any modern turbo DI car will roast it.  you can absolutely make them fast, just like anything honda, but i wasn't sure if you wanted to go down that path.  its a very entertaining driving experience IMO, and why i went with one.

they are at the bottom of their curve now, though.  you can find a really nice coupe under 8 and a decent sedan around 10.  extremely functional cars.  but the 10th is better in every speed, safety, and economy metric if you were wanting to do DD stuff with it too.

That makes sense. I drove polen's 8th gen many moons ago and enjoyed it, but I'd be interested in checking out a 10th gen.  If I'm shopping Veloster N's though, I think a more direct competitor would be the CTR which may come down in price, especially if I'm getting the N with the performance package.  I'm seeing the veloster N with performance package for upper 20's and the CTR with low 30's. SI's look to be low 20's for a good example, too.  I need to find some places that will do test drives around here....

[ScottyB]

That makes sense. I drove polen's 8th gen many moons ago and enjoyed it, but I'd be interested in checking out a 10th gen.  If I'm shopping Veloster N's though, I think a more direct competitor would be the CTR which may come down in price, especially if I'm getting the N with the performance package.  I'm seeing the veloster N with performance package for upper 20's and the CTR with low 30's. SI's look to be low 20's for a good example, too.  I need to find some places that will do test drives around here....

Polen had a 9th gen. similar body style but they moved over to the K24 engine, up .4L over the old K20. no more dual-cam VTEC, lower revving, and not nearly as easy to untap power because the exhaust manifold is an integrated, single-runner downpipe and no longer 4 seperate exhaust runners. suspension got less playful as well. good cars, just as fast and probably even better as a DD because of the torque....but not the same screaming banshee as of old.

CTR is a LOT of car for the money. the benefit of the N is that its playful everywhere. i'd do some research to see if the R community has solved the overheating and grinding synchro issues. downside of the CTR is that its limits are so high, it might be hard to have much fun with it on the street. talk to G about his, he had a champ white one for a year or two.

10th gen Si is a great car for the money if you want to trade a little speed for practicality. the powertrain is very flat IMO though...lousy noises, flat power band, very little character. they dominate G Street in autocross. worth a test drive to see if it would make you happy or not.

if you liked the BRZ, i'd look at another 2015+, with the performance package brake setup like what Evan has. most of the bugs are worked out, the brakes are monster size and the aftermarket's only gotten better. great compromise between hatch practicality, small car racing consumables, and RWD fun. i want one.

[Tyler.M]

That makes sense. I drove polen's 8th gen many moons ago and enjoyed it, but I'd be interested in checking out a 10th gen.  If I'm shopping Veloster N's though, I think a more direct competitor would be the CTR which may come down in price, especially if I'm getting the N with the performance package.  I'm seeing the veloster N with performance package for upper 20's and the CTR with low 30's. SI's look to be low 20's for a good example, too.  I need to find some places that will do test drives around here....

Polen had a 9th gen.  similar body style but they moved over to the K24 engine, up .4L over the old K20.  no more dual-cam VTEC, lower revving, and not nearly as easy to untap power because the exhaust manifold is an integrated, single-runner downpipe and no longer 4 seperate exhaust runners.  suspension got less playful as well.  good cars, just as fast and probably even better as a DD because of the torque....but not the same screaming banshee as of old.

CTR is a LOT of car for the money.  the benefit of the N is that its playful everywhere.  i'd do some research to see if the R community has solved the overheating and grinding synchro issues.  downside of the CTR is that its limits are so high, it might be hard to have much fun with it on the street.  talk to G about his, he had a champ white one for a year or two.

10th gen Si is a great car for the money if you want to trade a little speed for practicality.  the powertrain is very flat IMO though...lousy noises, flat power band, very little character.  they dominate G Street in autocross.  worth a test drive to see if it would make you happy or not.

if you liked the BRZ, i'd look at another 2015+, with the performance package brake setup like what Evan has.  most of the bugs are worked out, the brakes are monster size and the aftermarket's only gotten better.  great compromise between hatch practicality, small car racing consumables, and RWD fun.  i want one.

The thing I loved about the subaru twins is that it was a cheap RWD platform with a usable hatch. I can't imagine what it would be like with a proper damper/brake set up, and they seem to be fairly cheap. Thanks for the tips, Scotty!

[ScottyB]

Thanks for the tips, Scotty!

if you're looking new, you might find a great deal on one right now. end of August is the unofficial switchover to 2021 model year cars. whatever's taking up space on a dealer's lot is gonna need to go so they can make room for the new stuff coming off the trucks. poke around your local dealer (toyota should be running some good APR deals starting August, that's how we got a deal on our 4Runner last year) and get hold of a test drive.

if you wanna go deeper down the rabbit hole into new car buying tactics, i wrote a big post about it in my 4runner thread here:
https://forum.mmsports.org/showthread.ph...#pid303882

good on your for keeping an open mind, and nothing wrong with going back to what's worked, if it was fun and fit your lifestyle. hard to beat that car as a learning tool.

[G.Irish]

If your budget goes up to high 20's you can get into a 987 Cayman S (2006-2012). That is probably going to be the best driver's car for the money IMO. The feedback and balance you get from that car are very hard to beat. It's not a mean car but it won't cover up your mistakes (with TC/SC off). And it sounds great.

The CTR is great, arguably the fastest hot hatch, and certainly the fastest FWD option. Even bone stock with stock brake pads you can take it to a track day and run a pretty quick pace. On the street in comfort mode it's pretty easy to live with, but the 20 inch wheels with 30 series tires are very easy to bend. Even though it doesn't have noticeable torque steer, it can still struggle to put the power down in 1st and 2nd gear, and into 4th when it's cold.

Both the CTR and Cayman S have great resale value so if you take care of them you can move on to the next thing in a few years without losing much money.

Overall I would say that a ND Miata might be my choice just because you can get them for significantly less, and they're really fun to drive. The BRZ would be second for the budget option. If you expand the budget the Cayman S would be a great pick.

[Senor_Taylor]

G has spoken

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