Just stopped by the Honda dealership - New 4-door Civic Si

[Evan]

I dont consider Honda to be any more reliable than any other brand, they have had their issues (v6 trans anyone?) especially lately. The only honda product worth mentioning is the s2000, and its getting long in the tooth. Id buy a new Solstice over a new S2000. And if someone hit me on the head hard enough for me to want a fwd shitbox, Honda isnt in even playing the same sport. Mazda 3, SRT4, Cobalt SS would get my attention before honda.

[Apoc]

No matter how good it is, you weaken your argument when you talk of buying GM.

Just an FYI.

[Andy]

No matter how good it is, you weaken your argument when you talk of buying GM.

Just an FYI.

GM is starting to get their shit together. I'm not nearly as repulsed by their products as I was in the past. Ford on the other hand . . .

[Apoc]

Yeah... I went home with her. I'm not nearly as repulsed by her as I used to be.

Just think about that for a bit.

[G.Irish]

I dont consider Honda to be any more reliable than any other brand, they have had their issues (v6 trans anyone?) especially lately.

They are by no means perfect but to say they are no more reliable than anyone else is just false. Would you pick a Kia over a Honda for reliability? A Benz? Land Rover? When's the last time you've ever heard of any Honda getting recalled over an engine failure? They're not perfect but in all industry tests they are consistently near the top. The only mass market manufacturer that is better is Toyota. I will agree though that the difference in reliable between the industry average and the best has narrowed significantly in the last few years.

The only honda product worth mentioning is the s2000, and its getting long in the tooth. Id buy a new Solstice over a new S2000. And if someone hit me on the head hard enough for me to want a fwd shitbox, Honda isnt in even playing the same sport. Mazda 3, SRT4, Cobalt SS would get my attention before honda.

Well the SRT4 isn't being made anymore but the MS3 would def get the nod. I'm not so sure about the Cobalt SS though. It typically finishes a good deal behind the MS3 and Si in comparos. Car and Driver did do a test at VIR where the Cobalt SS soundly beat the Si in lap time (even beat the Mustang GT too) so maybe its being judged unfairly in comparisons.

As for the S2000, hopefully Honda won't let it die a slow and horrible death the way they did with the NSX.

[Andy]

Yeah... I went home with her. I'm not nearly as repulsed by her as I used to be.

Just think about that for a bit.

I did and your statement still doesn't make any sense.

How about, "The product content in terms of looks and quality are on an upward trajectory with a few highlights such as the Corvette and Solstice/Sky. In a few years, I think I could buy a GM product assuming the current progession continues."

Jeez, I swear you have to pick a fight sometimes. It's like a disease.

[Mike]

Jeez, I swear you have to pick a fight sometimes. It's like a disease.

many of them have it.

i'm with you... of the american brands, gm is the only one making steps in the right direction. i'll be honest, the cobalt ss is s sharp looking car. the sky/solstice? i'd drive a sky. the vette? going places. cadillac? i'd rock 'em.

[Apoc]

How about, "The product content in terms of looks and quality are on an upward trajectory with a few highlights such as the Corvette and Solstice/Sky. In a few years, I think I could buy a GM product assuming the current progession continues."

My point was that while some may feel that GM is improving, "not as repulsed" or "in a few years" isn't really a valid argument in defense of a current product line. Sucking less is still a state of sucking, which was my original point to Evan.

Sorry if my use of abstract example seemed argumentative, I thought it was clear... but I'm the only one in my head.

[Feersty]

I saw a gunmetal FA5 today turning onto Old Keene Mill Road. It was driven by a blonde haired female, surprising.

Still can't wait to see the Mugen Civic though. 500 units coming to the U.S.
JDM:


USDM:

[G.Irish]

Eh, overpriced. I mean the 18 inch wheels, suspension, and aero kit are all nice but too much money for what you're getting. Some people will surely buy it because they're Mugen brand whores but color me unimpressed.

[Apoc]

have your driven them? i'm not too fond of the styling either, but nobody makes a car that is a joy to drive, enjoy, and not worry about better than honda.

The 2006 Civic has had 4 recalls. Last week, they recalled 45k Hybrids

A fluke, status quo for "production mistakes" or sign that Honda is trending towards lower build quality?

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[Mike]

no doubt that honda is trending towards lower quality. i'll be the 1st to say that toyota has them beat with ease these days, but i still consider them better than anyone else.

maybe number of recalls is not a good indication of quality at all? they're voluntary... maybe the other companies are valuing dollars over lives?

[NTIman]

I think Toyota and Honda have great reliability, but if honda is like toyota, their reliability is on the downhill slope. Looking at the lists of TSBs and Recalls on Toyotas that have come out in the last few years have really shown me that they have problems like anyone else.

That being said, I think what makes Toyota a "more reliable" car is the fact that they don't mess around. They stand behind their product very well. They also take care of fixing the problem before it hits too many of the cars rolling off the assembly line.

I guess Honda and Toyota are at the top, but I think everyone else can and will catch up at some point.

[JustinG]

maybe number of recalls is not a good indication of quality at all? they're voluntary... maybe the other companies are valuing dollars over lives?

Probably true, costs less to settle with families thant to recall and fix thousands of cars

[Maengelito]

When's the last time you've ever heard of any Honda getting recalled over an engine failure?

sorry G, i love hondas almost as much as you do but:

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Honda said the recall affected 2005 models of the Acura RL, TL and TSX sedans, 2005 Honda Accord coupes, sedans and hybrids, 2005 Odyssey minivans and 2006 Ridgeline trucks.

Martin said the automaker discovered that sealer material leaked onto a coil wire inside the fuel pump relay on some of the vehicles. The wire can become brittle and snap, causing the engine to stall or fail to start.

while not a grenading motor, its still a pretty serious problem.

[ultimagtrlover]

I actually test drove an '07 Civic SI coupe a couple days ago, and I wasn't impressed to say the least. Yes, a great interior, but that's it. It drove like a sedan, comfy suspension, and quiet ride. My friend's stock '98 Civic sedan seems more fun to drive! The '07's engine was not quick to rev and the brakes on my test model absolutely sucked...no bite at all when you hit the brakes. I was looking foward to a tossable, aggressive vehicle but I came back with the notion that this car is too comfy and soft for me. The '98 Civic (4-door by the way) has an engine that revs quickly, the clutch/tranny set-up is more user friendly, and the chassis seems much less bothered by taking corners at a decent pace. The '07 SI does have more grip and acceleration, but the Civics of the past seemed to be much more sporty and enthusiastic to drive.

[BLINGMW]

Martin said the automaker discovered that sealer material leaked onto a coil wire inside the fuel pump relay on some of the vehicles. The wire can become brittle and snap, causing the engine to stall or fail to start.

I heard about that recall last night as well, but they weren't clear on the details. How/why is that being reported as an engine problem? :dunno: Doesn't sound like the "engine" to me.

[Mike]

When's the last time you've ever heard of any Honda getting recalled over an engine failure?

sorry G, i love hondas almost as much as you do but:

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Honda said the recall affected 2005 models of the Acura RL, TL and TSX sedans, 2005 Honda Accord coupes, sedans and hybrids, 2005 Odyssey minivans and 2006 Ridgeline trucks.

Martin said the automaker discovered that sealer material leaked onto a coil wire inside the fuel pump relay on some of the vehicles. The wire can become brittle and snap, causing the engine to stall or fail to start.

while not a grenading motor, its still a pretty serious problem.

as has been said, not really motor related. just happens to affect something that STARTS the motor.

[PGK]

have your driven them? i'm not too fond of the styling either, but nobody makes a car that is a joy to drive, enjoy, and not worry about better than honda.

The 2006 Civic has had 4 recalls. Last week, they recalled 45k Hybrids

A fluke, status quo for "production mistakes" or sign that Honda is trending towards lower build quality?

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Did you read that article? or just the first four paragraphs? I'll paraphrase: most safety recalls aren't affecting things that pose an immediate grave threat to the driver. They are things like labels put on backwards, or things that "under certain conditions the possibility exists that part X has a tendency to do Y when Z is done by the driver" etc etc. Basically, the manufacturers are covering their asses.

Bottom line, recalls are not a measure of reliability. Quite the opposite I would point out, in many cases it is a way for the manufacturer to ensure continued use of the vehicle and a happy customer.

[ViPER1313]

Civics...sporty.....enthusiastic to drive.

Those are 3 words that do not belong in the same sentence - Honda Civics are not sports cars (unless they are modified into one.)