Ticket advice...

[Goodspeed]

My .02 - I've never had or dealt with a lawyer for traffic court, but I've also never paid in "full" either.

She'll go in, sit down, wait for her name to be called, spend 5 minutes in front of the judge, step to the side and wait to pay whatever she may have to, then leave. Payments are in the form of the infraction cost + a base court fee.

I can easily side with what Rex said. Dress nice, be respectful, admit guilt. Depending heavily on the judge, this attitude and respect may be enough to get her off the hook (except for court fees, probably...that is most always paid). These judges see all kinds of disrespectful, poorly dressed people on a daily basis and being "nice" will sometimes get you quite far. Thank the judge and shake the officer's hand and apologize to him.

One option she can exercise is her ability to delay the court date; this can be done up to three times in VA. The more she does it, the higher the chance that the officer won't show up due to conflicts in his schedule and it'd be thrown out.

My last ticket, I paid the ~70 dollar court fee, took the 8 hour class, and had no effect on my insurance. It sucked, but I saved money overall.

The problem with going to court on this ticket is that the cop will most likely tell the Judge the real speed that your GF was going, and I doubt any judge in the world is going to be lenient about 88 in a 65.

My 2nd ticket was a reckless during that whole $3500 reckless ticket fiasco here. The officer bumped it down to 1 below reckless, and stated his "adjusted" speed in front of the judge. I lucked out BIG time.

[andrew_j]

I tried the respectful nicely dressed bit with my last ticket, which is why she is worried it won't work. I was hit while making a legal u-turn by a girl who was texting. I received a failure to yield ticket, went to court and was fined $200, and given the option of month suspended or 4 points. Both required I take drivers improvement.

I will not drive to VaBeach still to this day.

[ViPER1313]

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you completely, but this is just coming from personal experience. A good lawyer (which like I said, down here is ~$150 for traffic violations, may be more in other areas) won't even let the ticket get to the point of the cop talking to the judge. On traffic court day, the judge has an entire table full of tickets and a lawyer will generally meet with him beforehand, work his magic, and if she has a clean record likely get it thrown out before it hits the courtroom floor. It's not like the lawyer is going to stand in front of the judge and the cop and try to win the courtroom over...the negotiation is done beforehand to save the judge's time.

The lawyer can't make a deal directly with a judge before hand - that's not how it works. The lawyer will try to talk with the cop and DA and reach some sort of compromise that will then be presented to the judge. The judge can then accept the proposed deal or say it's not acceptable. I went to traffic court and watched a judge yell at the DA for proposing a low penalty in one guys case (which had been worked out before hand with the dude's lawyer) and then impose the harshest penalty that he could. In the case of my VA reckless ticket, the cop would not budge / work anything out with my lawyer and we had to plead not-guilty and present the case (and thanks to Goodspeed, it worked out rather well). And I paid more than $150 for my lawyer. :dunno:

[Mike]

as has been said, pay it and forget it.

my thoughts:
i had my share of tickets in college. none raised my insurance.
a lawyer costs a lot.
a ticket for 15 over isn't all that bad.
i would not admit to being on the phone talking about an animal/sidetracked. if i were the judge, i'd throw more at you. "oh, so when you're distratced, your foot turns to lead? yeah, that's safe."

ya did it, pay it, life will go on.

in fact, unless required to go to court, i'd prepay.

[Ryan T]

I'm in court at least 2 times a week and see more of these cases than I ever care to see and 9.8/10 times the commonwealths attorney isn't even involved in the proceedings. The cop stands by the bench/sits at a table depending on the setup and the judge rolls through all the tickets issued by that officer for that particular court date. Those that can prepay usually do, and of the ones that don't more than half don't show up. If the person doesn't show the judge asks if the person was cooperative and based upon the officers answer issues a fine ranging anywhere from $100-$1500. For those that show and it is there first offense the judge doesn't always ask for a plea immediantely. He asks them what they'd like to say. They say they were speeding, they know they were speeding, it's their first offense, they learned their lesson, they apologize, they want driving school blah blah. Judge then says he can issue a fine or he can take it under advisement for 90 days pending completion of a driving school. Complete the driving school and give proof to the court within the required amount of time and the charge is dismissed and you pay $71 in court costs.

Dunno if that'll work for you up there, but all 6 courts I serve and their respective judges handle cases that way.

[Dave]

In perusing this thread, it seems there's essentially 2 ways to approach it.
1) Admit that you f'd up and, for once, got caught doing it. Fix your habits and be a better driver.
2) Lawyer up and hope for the best. Spend $ to help you avoid tickets in the future.

[WRXtranceformed]

It's a bigger financial gamble to pay the ticket upfront + driving improvement classes in the hope that your insurance company doesn't run a check for infractions on your next renewal than to potentially pay a little more upfront for a good lawyer to have it expunged. I don't care what kind of silly luck some of these guys have had, that is not the norm with insurance companies...especially now when they are looking to bolster profits as much as they can with all of the crazy rate legislation going on right now in certain states.

[Mike]

Your fallacy is that hiring a lawyer = win.

[WRXtranceformed]

I'm telling you what's worked for me every time...and every time I've gone into court "dressed up" and well spoken and argued a point it's gotten me nothing but a fine and higher insurance rates. Especially in the communistwealth of VA and the dirty ignorant hick towns that surround I-81. So take that for what it's worth.
If you hire the right lawyer and you've done something short of involuntary manslaughter or DUI with your car then there's no reason why it shouldn't be reduced to a non-moving or minor violation or be completely thrown out at all.

[Sijray21]

If you hire the right lawyer and you've done something short of involuntary manslaughter or DUI with your car then there's no reason why it shouldn't be reduced to a non-moving or minor violation or be completely thrown out at all.

this is likely, but not guaranteed. i've witnessed others before me in traffic court, with lawyers, receive no less of a charge than me. I'm not sure how much money they spent in total, but when i searched for a lawyer for traffic court the charges were north of $500, typically $750 or $1000 plus the insurance hike, drivers education course (in one case), and a $300 fine -- he was recklessly speeding.

If you can find a good lawyer for cheap, then why not hire them? if she decides to get a lawyer, find one that is in the jurisdiction as the court so they're familiar with the judges, like Lee mentioned. i had a Class II misdemeanor (traffic) charge last January end with a dismissal, but the lawyer fees were worth it considering what i was up against in maximum (albeit not likely) charges. if it was a speeding ticket i wouldn't have hired a lawyer...you're guaranteeing yourself of speding the money if you hire a lawyer with the potential of paying more...

i think that she should thank her lucky stars that the officer didn't persue 81mph or above personally... the ticket she was issued was 80mph which is speeding (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/46.2-862.HTM">http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/46.2-862.HTM</a><!-- m -->). insurers will not treat a speeding violation with near the same seriousness as a reckless and they may even grant her forgiveness if it's her first offense (this is happening more than it has before).

edit: i'm also with Rex and Mike, i've never paid more in insurance premiums because of speeding tickets...only for my reckless

[V1GiLaNtE]

My experience...

This time last year got pulled over on a motorbike doing "54-35" in Harrisonburg coming off a exit ramp.. I was doing more like 70+.. Cop pulled me over.. Helmet came off and license came out. "yes sir" "no sir" was my response to everything.. Easily could have gotten written up for reckless but cop lowered it.. I took a online driving course before hand to bring with me to court to show the court. I pleaded guilty to the judge. Judge basically asked the cop if I was respectful and cooperative. Cop laid it out that I was more than cooperative and polite. Judge dismissed the ticket and all I paid was $60 in court fees..

Moral of the story.. Be polite, come prepared, and admit your guilty and by showing you've taken initiative to take a driving course will do a lot to help your case.

[BLINGMW]

a ticket for 15 over isn't all that bad.

How long has she been driving? She has a positive point for every year without a ticket and hers is a 4 point violation. Call and find out how much the fine is, and with the safe driving points she might be back to 0. I doubt her insurance will be affected. The lawyer route seems kind of crazy for such a minor offense, especially since she's admitting guilt, but I don't have any experience with that.

If she goes (and Ryan's description is accurate from the times I've gone), just get in the guilty line, request the judge take it under advisement, pay and get outta there. Either:
The judge is having a nice day and knocks it down. Hooray!
The judge offers DIP class. TORTURE (saves you money, costs you sanity)
You get the full couple hundred $ fine (I'm guessing). Oh well.

[Evan]

lawyer is a good idea. a good lawyer can turn the "cop said i was going 88 but reduced it to 80" into "if he really knew how fast she was going he would have given her the ticket for that speed, not made up a high number and 'reduced' it to 80"

also, every time Ive been to traffic court, the judge has said that points are given by the DMV and he has no control to lessen them. so IMO, going all the way for "not guilty" is the only way to play it. ive seen the "admitting guilt but really really sorry for it" end up being nothing but a waste of time way too many times to rely on it.

[Dave]

especially since she's admitting guilt, but I don't have any experience with that.

Quoted for posterity

[BLINGMW]

haha that's not what I meant

[andrew_j]

She got the court date moved until December 3rd. I think her plan is to do a drivers improvement class so that she can mark it as voluntary at the very least. I let her read this and she is still considering the options that she has.