Toyota plans 3.8 million vehicle recal due to driver error

[D_Eclipse9916]

El o El...

What is to prevent the Toyota driver from sticking their head or hands through the zip tie while driving?

Upcoming 911 call:
Emergency Operator
Hello please state your emergency.

Driver
Yes my hand is stuck to the floor and I can't see where I am going.

Emergency Operator
Sir, are you driving a toyota?

Driver
I'm not sure, is a Lexus a Toyoyta?

Emergency Operator
Yes Sir, have you tried to pick up a shiny object through the zip tie on your floor.

Driver
Yes there was something shiny there and I grabbed it with my hand but now my hand is stuck!

Emergency Operator
Sir, you are going to have to let go of the shiny object before you will be able to remove your hand.

Driver
But I want it, it's shiny.

-Loud Crash Noises-

Emergency Operator
Sir, Sir are you still there? Do you need
help?

End of transcript

[NTIman]

You wouldn't believe how many phone calls we're getting like "I have a 1986 Toyota Camry and I'm worried that the floormats are going to kill me. Are you guys going to put new ones in?"

[ScottyB]

You wouldn't believe how many phone calls we're getting like "I have a 1986 Toyota Camry and I'm worried that the floormats are going to kill me. Are you guys going to put new ones in?"

haha....you guys need to set up a custom voicemail. "if you're calling about your concerns that your floormats are going to choke you in your sleep, press 2...."

[John]

Wow, you guys are pretty harsh - so allow me to weigh in on some details that you all glossed over. I work with somebody who's brother-in-law was the passenger in that vehicle, and having seen the photos on the local news, it was a truly awful and tragic wreck.

1) The car was a loaner, and reportedly had aftermarket floormats in it;
2) Being that it was a loaner, the drivers weren't as familiar with the car;
3) Push buttons don't turn off when you hit the button - you have to push and hold for a few seconds
4) The wreck occurred at the bottom of a steep hill - that road progresses to drop about 1000' in elevation over the course of about 2 miles

I won't condone the actions of the victims, and I agree that the driver should have taken other measures to stop the vehicle. Would we all do the right thing in a time of panic? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's easier to be an armchair d-bag rather than understanding all the circumstances.

[TorinoCobra070]

I don't know John... a state trooper should know basic car operation and driving techniques...

[JustinG]

Aftermarket floormats caused toyota to have to do a recall... that seems kinda weird.

[Jeff]

Aftermarket floormats caused toyota to have to do a recall... that seems kinda weird.

That incident was not cited as one of the actual events leading to the recall. It is just suspected to be connected and under investigation according to my reading.;

[JustinG]

OOOOOOOOOOOOO

[John]

I don't know John... a state trooper should know basic car operation and driving techniques...

1) He was a desk jockey for the CHP
2) Are you telling me that in the heat of the moment, you're going to intuitively hold the power button for 3 seconds? Jam your left foot on the parking brake (since that's where they are in the Lexus')? Throw it into reverse (not sure that's even physically possible)?

That incident was not cited as one of the actual events leading to the recall. It is just suspected to be connected and under investigation according to my reading.;

Correct - the dealership acknolwedged that it used aftermarket floormats in their loaners.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I don't know John... a state trooper should know basic car operation and driving techniques...

1) He was a desk jockey for the CHP
2) Are you telling me that in the heat of the moment, you're going to intuitively hold the power button for 3 seconds? Jam your left foot on the parking brake (since that's where they are in the Lexus')? Throw it into reverse (not sure that's even physically possible)?

That incident was not cited as one of the actual events leading to the recall. It is just suspected to be connected and under investigation according to my reading.;

Correct - the dealership acknolwedged that it used aftermarket floormats in their loaners.

You make good points, but I still beleive he is retarded. If you have enough time to call 911, you have enough time to think clearly to hold a button for 3 seconds and put your foot on the brake, parking brake, or throw the car in neutral.

[BLINGMW]

4) The wreck occurred at the bottom of a steep hill - that road progresses to drop about 1000' in elevation over the course of about 2 miles

I'm not sure the articles I saw had any of these details, so I don't feel too bad for ignoring them. This specific case mentioned isn't really the issue to me though. I maintain it has happened before, will continue to happen, and it's due to SEVERE driver error. I'll even go so far as to say that the people who would make such a mistake and respond so poorly in the face of "unintended acceleration" would be the same people that would run a red light, hit a motorcycle, cyclist, or pedestrian, and not understand how it could be their fault. They are people that shouldn't be driving, and many of them are people we know, our parents and friends. I HOPE they aren't us.

I have two questions though. And I haven't spent any time in a "modern" car with push button start and other apparently more confusing controls, so these are honest questions:

1) Is it really that hard to find neutral? Forget reverse or parking brake, or any of that silly stuff, but neutral = problem solved.

2) I have operated under the assumption (I don't remember where I've heard it, nor have I checked the numbers myself) that properly designed and operating brakes greatly overpower the engine they came with. Going downhill obviously makes this job more of a challenge, but engineers usually design for worst case and more, and I would think automotive engineers would do the same.
I spent a few minutes the other day looking for brake calculators, but didn't find anything that made it easy for me and gave up. Does anyone care to find out if this is true? Is it still true for a 500+ HP car going downhill? I of course understand that eventually any brakes will eventually overheat in such a situation, but if you're going downhill at 150MPH, and jam on the brakes, will they be able to dissipate 500HP and have leftovers for long enough to stop the car?

Sounds like something to do with my next rental car :lol:

[Dave]

Sounds like something to do with my next rental car :lol:

Just make sure the floor mats are locked securely in the trunk so you can prevent the inevitable epic power struggle in the driver footwell...

[BLINGMW]

so I haven't had the need for a rental car yet, but I found this interesting:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas">http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas</a><!-- m -->
"WATCH: What to do if your car accelerates out of control"

At least with this Toyota Vensa the tester is driving, the power braking system fails before he can get it to come to a stop. I hadn't even thought of that and am a bit surprised. So the brakes are probably "fine", but now you have to be a pretty big guy to get them to work.

Apparently people are claiming it isn't floormats, and a maybe software glitch. Still no excuse for not learning to operate your car and know how to turn off the engine or get it into nuetral IMHO, but it does complicate things. And if someone learned to drive 10+ years ago, they really need some re-education, because cars just aren't the same anymore.

Interesting links I stole from /.

F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million

IEEE Spectrum: "How hard should it be to stop a runaway luxury car?" <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car">http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car</a><!-- m -->

IEEE Spectrum: "This car runs on code" <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/this-car-runs-on-code">http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/this-car-runs-on-code</a><!-- m -->


Manual transmission and throttle cable for me please. :thumbup:

[HAULN-SS]

Slightly skewed because I suspect the code is not efficiently written in a car like it will be in an aircraft

[BLINGMW]

I don't know if "skewed" is the right word. Maybe not as efficient, but that's the point. It's really complex, necessary or not. And likely it isn't tested to military standards. So really it's kind of a "duh" situation. Of COURSE errors are going to occur!

And steering, braking by wire are next..... And people just love a car that can park and hold a lane for them and CAN'T WAIT for it to do all the driving too. What's funny really is that every time a computer system fails and kills someone, it's so shocking. But people continue to kill themselves in cars at astronomical rates, and that's not really news. Sure, we COULD spend a weekend learning how to operate this weapon, but no, let's just ignore the problem and blame someone else when possible. :vomit:

I think I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again, I wish we'd just reclassify automobiles as deadly weapons and legally treat them as such. The court doesn't care much if your revolver "accidentally" fired and killed someone, it's YOUR fault. YOU chose to purchase and operate it, YOU pointed it at them, case closed. And unlike a gun, which we have a right to own and operate, a car is a privilege and the permit to operate one should have always been more stringent. If you can't handle it, here's your moped.

[Jake]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas
"WATCH: What to do if your car accelerates out of control"

At least with this Toyota Vensa the tester is driving, the power braking system fails before he can get it to come to a stop. I hadn't even thought of that and am a bit surprised. So the brakes are probably "fine", but now you have to be a pretty big guy to get them to work.

I would love to try that all out on a rental car.

Interesting, though, how he claims that "some people don't know HOW to put the car in neutral or where it is!" Um, it's the little N between R and D, right where it's been since oh, forever.

I thought basic vehicle operations were taught in driver's ed. We have entered a new era of automotive stupidity.

[BLINGMW]

I guess they haven't figured it out... :dunno:

http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Toyota-...Z-UPDATE-1

[NTIman]

I guess they haven't. We haven't even started lopping off the camry pedals yet, and now they throw this at us...

I guess its hard to find a solution to a problem when there are a hundred things it could be, and like only 10 cars out of several million to test on.

[Jeff]

They must KNOW it is something more serious then floor mats. It is some sort of electrical issue in the drive by wire. From my reading they are like the only company that does not have a redundant circuit for the DBW. Maybe that has something to do with it? I hope they get it figured out.

[WRXtranceformed]

It's definitely not just floor mats, there were a few articles out about the fact that it's probably computer related, because it is still happening even in cars where the floor mats have been removed. I was trying to find the article but I was too lazy after about 3 mins of searching.