Suspension Setups

[white_2kgt]

so this topic reminds me of what i'm doin at work right now. i cant get into the specifics, but part of it relates to suspension and damping. the new audi tt is using active dampers with magnetic particles in it and as the input voltage is adjusted, the damping adjusts within milliseconds.

An innovative technology is used for the shock absorbers: Audi magnetic ride. Instead of the conventional damper fluid, a magnetorheological fluid is used ÔÇô in other words, a fluid whose viscosity can be influenced by an electromagnetic field. This effect enables to damping characteristic to be influenced electronically at will by applying a voltage to the electromagnets.

Audi uses this property to supply the correct damping forces in every driving situation, thus optimising ride comfort and road behaviour. A computer equipped with sensor technology determines the prevailing driving situation in a matter of milliseconds. The driver can choose from two driving programs depending on whether they want to drive in a very sporty style ÔÇô in which case the magnetorheological fluid exhibits high viscosity ÔÇô or more with the accent on ride comfort

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2005-Audi-Shooting-Brake-Concept.htm">http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2005-A ... oncept.htm</a><!-- m -->

its pretty interesting and more car companies will be using this technology for their higher end models soon

Not really innovative technology since the corvette has had those for a few years now :roll: damn germans finally catching up?

[Maengelito]

properties of the rheological fluids have increased dramatically since the late 90's. yeah the C5's had these suspensions, but sensor technology has been increasing dramatically. like i said, i cant really get into specifics, but the fact that more cars are using them means that the technology is getting more advanced and cheaper while still allowing pratically infinite adjustability.

[.RJ]

Changing fluid viscosity is a rather crude way of changning suspension damping characteristics, but I suppose it works ok, given the low cost and response time.

[Maengelito]

Changing fluid viscosity is a rather crude way of changning suspension damping characteristics, but I suppose it works ok, given the low cost and response time.

i dont see it as being crude. you have practically infinite adjustability almost instantly.

[.RJ]

i dont see it as being crude

By only changing the viscosity of the fluid, you have no control of how the damping is changed - i.e. high speed vs. low speed, bump vs. rebound, etc. So yes, its very crude... not like the dampers you'd see on the track.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.koni-na.com/fsd/index2.html">http://www.koni-na.com/fsd/index2.html</a><!-- m --> - the new koni FSD shocks look like they'd be great for a street car or occasional track car.

[white_2kgt]

Changing fluid viscosity is a rather crude way of changning suspension damping characteristics, but I suppose it works ok, given the low cost and response time.

Combine it with Progressive rate springs it could get interesting...Still, I'd take a set of properly setup Penske's any day.

[Andy]

Have you guys read about the shocks Bose is developing. They call them active shocks that work with sensors mounted at the front of the car and push out and pull in according to the surface to insure the car stays absolutely flat and smooth. There's video of a LS400 going over a series of speed bumps and the in car video is absolutely smooth. They also got the car to jump over 2-3 barriers like a horse to demonstrate the power of the Bose shocks. Pretty cool shit.

[Mike]

find the video, please.

[Andy]

http://www.google.com

[D_Eclipse9916]

JIC? are you crazy?

I guess the 1g dsm that beat out ferraris in socal road racing speed unlimited class using JICs was an idiot. He should switch to something else.....because you said it was junk.....
quote]

Yes, JIC is junk. Their service is awful, their dealer network is awful, and the product is awful - and if it breaks or want a revalve, you're going to be up the creek. I've also been in a car with JIC's and it handled like ass.

You can start here:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878754">http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878754</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=729032">http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=729032</a><!-- m -->

I could go further, but I'm not going to waste anyone's time.

Hotbits......the rally and coilover suspension setups? I cant beleive youve never heard of them...especially if your trying to talk about higher-end suspension setups...

No, I've never heard of them, and if you could provide some sort of info on them I'd like to read up on it.

When people say "high end" when you talk about suspension then you are going to get into the $400 and up per damper price point - and your options are Koni 3011 or 2812's, Moton, Penske, JRZ, Mugen N1, etc... they have established dealer networks and everything you buy is going to be custom valved for your application, spring rate, etc... no off the shelf solutions. Then you will need to consider the testing/tuning required to dial in a high-end setup, which most people do not have the time, budget, tires, Data Aq and often trackside support to do - I know that I sure dont have the $$ to go through 2-3 sets of tires and several test days just to dial in a set of dampers.

Everything on honda-tech is junk, 99% of the time, even you guys will agree with that, so id rather go with a proven setup that has worked for my specific car.

Oh and hotbits, arent "off the shelf" they are custom-ordered and they are 2000 dollars a set (depending on options, cheaper or more expensive) with spherical upper bearings, helper springs, external reservoirs blah blah blah blah...
If you didnt know what they were, then you shouldnt assume what they are.

[.RJ]

Everything on honda-tech is junk, 99% of the time, even you guys will agree with that

Did you even take the time to read the links that I posted before immediatly dismissing them due to their source? If you take the time to weed through the BS (yes, there is a lot of it) and ask the right questions there is some very, very good information on that site.

If you didnt know what they were, then you shouldnt assume what they are.

I didnt assume ANYTHING, I asked twice for more information on them, but you're still rambling on about "proven setups"....

[Rex4life]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.me.vt.edu/AVDL/">http://www.me.vt.edu/AVDL/</a><!-- m -->

clicky research -> under focus areas -> MR technology

some pretty good examples of how MR technology is being developed for areas. i had a chance to talk to the guy who developed MR dampers for his motorcycle. he paid for all the equipment out of pocket and got to keep his banging suspension setup.

If the funding is still there i'm going to be working on desiging, modeling and testing a control system for a MR damper system on a sports/race car at vir.

[JustinG]

so the consensus is, KONIs and some descent springs, enough with the uneeded off topic rambling

[white_2kgt]

so the consensus is, KONIs and some descent springs, enough with the uneeded off topic rambling

adjustable sway bars, don't forget the sway bars. If you get adjustable KONIs keep in mind you are going to have to dial them in, if you don't think you will take the time to do it proper, then get some Bilstein's valved to your spring rate of choosing.

[D_Eclipse9916]

They dont have an option for adjustable sway bars on our cars, the dsm community is still mostly a drag-racing community...However there is talk about a new adjustable sway bar setup custom-ordered through RRE, I am looking into it all this week.

Bilsteins for our cars are also rediculously expensive. Konis are a much cheaper alternative.

I know a lot of what you guys are saying are very true for your cars, but the dsm community is backwards in time on suspension setups right now. We are catching up quick though.

[Jeff]

DJ, It seems like you take offense when people mention something that does not work right on a DSM...or mentions something bad about something that might/does work on a DSM. I know this is a DSMer's thread, but maybe it would be better for the good of everyone if it was allowed to explore information on a wide variety of ideas, even if they may or may not directly apply. I mean, it seems to me that RJ was throwing out some good opinion and asking some questions. If someone wants a truly vehicle specific answer they need to hit up a forum on that car, if they want to start good conversation and get opinion from a some what more removed source, this is the place. I mean, I know better then to ask a TD question here...but MM is a great wealth of general knowledge for me personally.

[D_Eclipse9916]

DJ, It seems like you take offense when people mention something that does not work right on a DSM...or mentions something bad about something that might/does work on a DSM. I know this is a DSMer's thread, but maybe it would be better for the good of everyone if it was allowed to explore information on a wide variety of ideas, even if they may or may not directly apply. I mean, it seems to me that RJ was throwing out some good opinion and asking some questions. If someone wants a truly vehicle specific answer they need to hit up a forum on that car, if they want to start good conversation and get opinion from a some what more removed source, this is the place. I mean, I know better then to ask a TD question here...but MM is a great wealth of general knowledge for me personally.

I only take offense when I am corrected by someone on a car question that is directly pointed to a dsm, when they do not have much knowledge in that area. This thread is specifically asking what he should do for his dsm, therefore giving him misinformation and leading him in the wrong direction is not beneficial but harmful. If you do not know, dont assume its the same and then bash someone who has more experience in that car area. I Would not correct RJ on the correct suspension setup for an integra as would I not try to correct Chan on a correct suspension setup for a mustang. My last post was me trying to be nice saying thanks for the input, dsms are a little behind in suspension development, but this is what we have available and a suggestion like adjustable sway bars for this car would have him searching in the wrong direction, like getting sus-tech sway bars, which were stupidly engineered on a dsm not to fit with anything larger than the stock exhaust. The only option is a RM sway bar or custom RRE or CUSTOM CUSTOM setup by yourself.

I appreciate what you guys have to say all the time, my tone of voice probably sounds completely different than what it does in real life, as I respect RJ greatly and many others in this club with far more experience than me in road racing. However, no one knows everything and I only try to correct what they overgeneralize and are wrong about things. I am corrected by them on some things and I respect that, but I do feel that some MM members cannot take being wrong. If I came off that way, then I am sorry.

[white_2kgt]

They dont have an option for adjustable sway bars on our cars, the dsm community is still mostly a drag-racing community...However there is talk about a new adjustable sway bar setup custom-ordered through RRE, I am looking into it all this week.

Bilsteins for our cars are also rediculously expensive. Konis are a much cheaper alternative.

I know a lot of what you guys are saying are very true for your cars, but the dsm community is backwards in time on suspension setups right now. We are catching up quick though.

Bolt on parts don't exist? Here, <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.colemanracing.com/">http://www.colemanracing.com/</a><!-- m --> build it yourself . You want the best, sometimes you have to work for it.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Yes but he is looking for a simple setup, he is not even installing them himself, so I assumed a bolt-on affair was going to be the best setup for him.

I actually may be looking at that, ive already got some part numbers from whiteline picked up for doing endlinks (no aftermarket endlinks for the dsm), or going through RRE for their custom setup which is a 1 and 1/16 inch bar with nice mounts and it is adjustable. But currently its not even available, its custom order from RRE over the phone.

BTW, back to this thread on on-topic, ill help you install those suspension if you would like, I dont mind...dont pay for it, ill help ya and youll learn from it also.

[Andy]

Back from the dead cause Mike is douche. Actually, our awesome search engine popped this thread up eventhough I was looking for RJ's differential thread.

Long story short--Here's the video of Bose's Active suspension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSi6J-QK1lw