Automotive News Discussion

[ScottyB]

the one positive from a dismal launch of an important icon car is that it gives a manufacturer an opportunity to impress the hell out of everyone on a generational update in the years to come. there's no better way for customers to get their way than to have a landslide of awful press and social media backlash that makes a company fear for their profits.

my guess is now that the tooling is in place, Supra will live on, but now Toyota might wise up to some appropriate facelifting and possibly re configuring some of the dash layout. that would be at least half the battle right there.

[Apoc]

Are we really surprised that, in a world where Ford stops making passenger cars, this thing was built the way it was?

Edit: Just read the article. I agree totally. This is the market's fault, not Toyota's.

[Goodspeed]

It might be slight sacrilege, but I really enjoyed this bit from Jack Baruth about the new Supra. He does have a point.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a2...crossover/

Interesting take for sure, but I think he's being pretty anachronistic in applying current trends to the past.  It's only recently that model names have been transported across category lines (Mitsu Eclipse crossover?). Yeah, Toyota cribbed from other brands in following general trends - Mk1 was a 70's luxobarge, Mk2 was a Japanese pony car, Mk3 was a 944 fighter etc. but the Supra was always slated to be a 2 door sports/GT car.  He's also off the mark stating Toyota constantly re-aligning the Supra to whatever "young people" wanted to buy.  By the Mk3 and definitely the Mk4, Toyota documentation proves they were specifically targeting well-off middle aged men with a median age of 45.  This product planning even shone through in their advertising:

the one positive from a dismal launch of an important icon car is that it gives a manufacturer an opportunity to impress the hell out of everyone on a generational update in the years to come.  there's no better way for customers to get their way than to have a landslide of awful press and social media backlash that makes a company fear for their profits.

my guess is now that the tooling is in place, Supra will live on, but now Toyota might wise up to some appropriate facelifting and possibly re configuring some of the dash layout.  that would be at least half the battle right there.

Hope so.  My fear is that they'll use their half-assedness to justify killing off the model and sports cars in general once and for all, and that'd be a real shame.  "Sometimes you have to feel it instead of listening to the opinions of others".  Yikes. 

[Apoc]

Whether Toyota realized it or not, young people is who they built the cars for. When they actually tried to build one for the older crowd, this is what we get. Maybe the mkiv was actually a welcomed mistake and this car is much more in line with how they think 40-somethings buy cars?

[WRXtranceformed]

Did we talk about this here? Just saw the reveal video on Facebook for the STI S209. 341hp upgrade, glad to see they finally did actually upgrade the horsepower but it seems like they could have pushed that envelope a little more:

https://www.facebook.com/subaruofamerica...424810381/

[*insertusernamehere*]

I love all the butthurtness here over the Supra.

I can't wait til I can afford one, much want.

[Senor_Taylor]

Is that still an EJ motor?

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[JPolen01]

It's an EJ25 but the S209 is a special edition. Only around 200 will be made. I wasn't sure if your post was about the S209 specifically or the STi in general.

Those metal flares are badass.

[ViPER1313]

Yawn... yet another 50k+ unobtainable super special edition STI. Call me when they finally catch up with the competition.

[Senor_Taylor]

Why why why is there no FA25 STI yet? I can't believe they're selling their flagship with a 20 year old motor.

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[ScottyB]

I love all the butthurtness here over the Supra.

its mostly coming from the alumni.

which is because we were generally in middle/high school when the MkIV came out, watched it become a legend during college, then watched it skyrocket out of our price ranges by the time we could afford one because Tuner Culture was in full swing.

it was a chance to actually get the one that got away, except New & Improved, but Toyota decided instead to hold hands with BMW while taking a burning hot semi-liquid PF Changs dump right in the middle of the living room of the Supra House instead and now the dedicated fans feel cheated out of the chance to live the dream, because nobody asked for a Japanese Z4 that looks like it put out a campfire with its face, especially after years and years of hype and teasers.

or maybe i'm projecting a little.

It's an EJ25 but the S209 is a special edition.

it'll throw rods just like the regular edition though! that's value!

you gotta admire Subaru though, they've managed to limp an ancient engine architecture along, with only minor updates, for close to 25 years while doubling its intended output and people STILL pay M3 money for it. from an engineering perspective, its amazing how many make it past warranty expiration without exploding first.

[.RJ]

I love all the butthurtness here over the Supra.

its mostly coming from the alumni.

Old men yell at clouds, you wont believe what happens next!

[Sijray21]

can we just call it the z4 coupe already? Thanks toyota. i am glad to see another sports/sporty car as opposed to another SUV, especially from BMW...er...Toyota.

[D_Eclipse9916]

The manual will come out. It has to...

It's not about pure sales figures; it's about image. Our generation, yes our generation who is now "successful young professionals" who are leasing and buying above their means loved the idea of the MKIV Supra. While many would actually hate one and not buy one, the IDEA of it drives media attention and love towards a brand. See butthurt about M3 *maybe* not having a manual rwd and how big/strong the enthusiast community drives the idea of it needing to be manual. These mid-20s, 30s kids leasing away their lives for the latest m3 that they get in....DCT.

Maybe I am wrong since I don't have this data. I have to believe that at this point, a manual Supra where magazine reviewers love and adore it (just cause it's manual and drives well); will have every jackass that reads Jalopnik flocking towards a Supra or begging their dad to get one. They end up in the showroom and end up buying the DCT/auto whatever. Those 5% of manual take rate may drive excitement towards actually buying any supra?

I wouldn't call it ugly like the new Camaro/Mustang ugly, but it certainly isn't pretty. The front end looks like it was great in concept but between focus groups of "too extreme" and crash regulations; it got emasculated and just looks dumb. Maybe a drop/tint/wheels will really pop.

[G.Irish]

The thing about manual take rates is that they are very different between volume models and performance-oriented models. So for a volume model like the regular 3 series, take rates might be 10% or lower. For the M3 it's something like 40-50%. With the new M3 moving to a slushbox I wouldn't be surprised to see the manual take rate to stay the same or even rise. I would drive another DCT M3, but under no circumstances will I buy a torque converter auto.

For Toyota, they might look at historical sales for Lexus when they offered manuals for stuff like the IS300, and surmise that the Supra doesn't really need a manual. Or they might figure that some people will say they want a manual, but they'll settle for an automatic. They are wrong.

Maybe there's a market for a 'sports' car without a sports car transmission in that price range, but Toyota is setting themselves up for failure. Again, who is this car for? An original Supra fan that doesn't care that it's reskinned Z4 and doesn't want a manual or DCT? Someone who wants a sports car for around $50k, but doesn't care that the Supra is down 100 or more horsepower from everything in that segment? People who don't really care about cars but like how the Supra looks? People who can't wait for a new 370Z with an automatic and wanna pay about $10k more for the privilege?

[Senor_Taylor]

I'm hopeful for a manual as well.

Didn't the mkIV sell a LOT of autos? I know the amount of turbo models as automatics was not insignificant.

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[ScottyB]

Didn't the mkIV sell a LOT of autos? I know the amount of turbo models as automatics was not insignificant.

this is true.  however at the time, you could get EVERYTHING in manual, including the camry.  it was just standard procedure to offer it, regardless of automatic take rates.

[Sijray21]

I'm happy to see that the mk8 gti will avoid the hybrid hype. Appears to get a nice hp/tq bump, but I'll believe it when I see it.

https://www.motor1.com/news/303772/vw-go...no-hybrid/

[Senor_Taylor]

I'm happy to see that the mk8 gti will avoid the hybrid hype. Appears to get a nice hp/tq bump, but I'll believe it when I see it.

https://www.motor1.com/news/303772/vw-go...no-hybrid/

Gosh darn it. It was fun having the new hotness while it lasted. Now I see why people constantly buy the new model of their car every 2 years and throw away money.

I could have sworn my car made like 270lb ft of torque. Guess I've been wrong this whole time. It really fucking scoots to only be 220/258.

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[Gordonovski]

Is the TCR coming to the states? Get that or a Clubsport over here and VW can have more of my money.

Or a Golf R with chunkier fenders. Oof.