GM ignition switch debacle, let me be insensitive for a min

[Kaan]

we have debated the euro licensing thing before. the concept is great, but you cant apply it to 'Merica... we dont have the lifestyle or public transportation to support it. instating it would wreck the economy IMHO

[Jake]

For example, my old roommate who decided to take his Audi Quattro (AWD,brah) on summer tires out during an ice storm. Loses control on a turn and rips the e-brake, because, emergency right? Sigh.

I may or may not have also crashed that Audi on summer tires in the middle of a ice storm, thank god we stopped before that pole...

I may or may not have also almost crashed that Audi on summer tires in the middle of an ice storm, thankfully the curb was farther away than my stopping distance was long.

[Ken]

For example, my old roommate who decided to take his Audi Quattro (AWD,brah) on summer tires out during an ice storm. Loses control on a turn and rips the e-brake, because, emergency right? Sigh.

I may or may not have also crashed that Audi on summer tires in the middle of a ice storm, thank god we stopped before that pole...

I may or may not have also almost crashed that Audi on summer tires in the middle of an ice storm, thankfully the curb was farther away than my stopping distance was long.

:lol: forgot about those. Key thing is though, neither of you ripped the e-brake thinking it would help.

[BLINGMW]

we have debated the euro licensing thing before. the concept is great, but you cant apply it to 'Merica... we dont have the lifestyle or public transportation to support it. instating it would wreck the economy IMHO

I don't know if I've said it here before, but while I fully don't expect our federal or state governments to do anything about it, I'm a bit surprised at least a few insurance companies haven't started pushing it. Progressive's "Snapshot" that monitors OBD2 information for hard stops and speeding is a huge step in the right direction. Why not take the next one? Charge more for insurance and discount it heavily if the driver attends a more aggressive, serious, possibly reoccuring driver training course. Maybe there's not yet enough data to back up the success of such programs? Maybe one's already doing this, I don't know. Seems like a huge selling point if the State Farm guy was like, "Join State Farm, where our drivers are 42% less likely to die screaming with their hands in the air".

I'd like to think that making them hard to start, hard to shift, hard to steer would make people would take them more seriously. But, that's how they used to be! And drinking and driving was even more popular back in the carburated, manual-steering and brakes, serrated, impaling steering wheel and dashboard days. So clearly I'm dreaming.

Give em a break.

Yeah, they got a break, they're dead!

[WRXtranceformed]

I don't think that automatics and electronic nannies are the cause of this issue, a contributing factor, sure, but I've seen plenty of people tooling around in 3-pedal econoboxes that still have no idea what they're doing. Education is the problem and education is the answer.

Pretty much this. I don't think it would hurt Americans to have a little bit more of a um, *selective* driver's license process. Harder tests, harder road tests, poor weather / loss of control tests. Even if you had to pay for these tests as the end user I think it would benefit a lot of people to do it. Heck a whole new driver trainer industry might even pop up from it (not just your PE teacher from high school taking you out and passing you as long as you don't wreck the car).

People think driving is a right not a priviledge when it really is the other way around. If you are on the road and you don't feel comfortable with what you would do in an abnormal situation in your car then you are endangering the rest of us around you. That's not to say even a trained person isn't going to potentially do something really dumb in their car when SHTF but it would certainly reduce the possibility.

[*insertusernamehere*]

2 grand for a DL? Thank god this is all hypothetical

[*insertusernamehere*]

Remind me to move to Europe if Channing gets into office.

And nope, in Virginia parallel parking was removed from the test before I had to do it. My parents still taught me how but most kids just had to figure it out.

Interesting. At my high school we still had to do it. We had to fit the car into a large-ish space and then a really smallspace without touching the tires. Parking lot tho. We also had to do on road in downtown, country and highway

[SlimKlim]

I don't know if I've said it here before, but while I fully don't expect our federal or state governments to do anything about it, I'm a bit surprised at least a few insurance companies haven't started pushing it. Progressive's "Snapshot" that monitors OBD2 information for hard stops and speeding is a huge step in the right direction. Why not take the next one? Charge more for insurance and discount it heavily if the driver attends a more aggressive, serious, possibly reoccuring driver training course. Maybe there's not yet enough data to back up the success of such programs? Maybe one's already doing this, I don't know. Seems like a huge selling point if the State Farm guy was like, "Join State Farm, where our drivers are 42% less likely to die screaming with their hands in the air".

I'd like to think that making them hard to start, hard to shift, hard to steer would make people would take them more seriously. But, that's how they used to be! And drinking and driving was even more popular back in the carburated, manual-steering and brakes, serrated, impaling steering wheel and dashboard days. So clearly I'm dreaming.

I like the insurance policy discount/steeper premium thing. I would happily shell out for driver training courses if it got my premiums down. I just got an email for my renewed policy after my latest speeding ticket (mind you I've only gotten 2, still have a positive point on my license) and I officially pay more to insure my cars than I do on the VW payment. :roll:

And yeah, you're totally dreaming. The number of high school friends my parents lost driving around big gigantic murder machines around town while blind drunk is insane. One group of kids managed to peel back the roof of their car like a can of tuna fish somehow... only their heads weren't out of the way...

For a good, well-trained driver, a triple clutch automated electronic active differential torque vectoring steering assisted lane tracking radar cruise control pothole aversion system can only do good. No matter how good of a driver you are, if you're tooling around in something from the 70s at some point you're probably going to fuck up and crash (Sorry Channing and Dave). My mom had a Triumph GT6 in her 20s and sold it after she hit a patch of black ice on the highway and ended up in a ditch. If it had been a modern car it would've made 10,000,000 calculations and adjustments to the braking force of each wheel to keep the car pointed straight until it got off the ice.

I do think something like a '98 stickshift corolla should be everyone's first car, no gizmos to distract you and an annoying gear shifter that keeps you from texting, at least in stop and go traffic.

I know there is no easy answer, but I do think our country needs to somehow encourage better driver training for the average idiot. You think it would be a more prevalent issue in the political landscape than it is. I guess the common line of thinking is to keep making the cars safer, but any ultra-safe car a manufacturer can develop, some idiot out there is destined to find a way to kill himself in it.

[Kaan]

my first car was an '85 mustang GT... i turned out to be an okay driver. you guys are killing peoples freedoms and i dont like it. :-P

[Senor_Taylor]

Paying $2000 for a license is silly. We don't have the public transportation to support that.

I had parallel parking on my driver's test. Then again, I did it through my school, not the DMV.

With my old insurance, I actually had a very tiny, laughable, driver education class thing where I had to sit down, watch a video, and I was given driving tips. I got a discount from it.


I personally think this is on a whole 'nother level compared to the Toyota recall.

[SlimKlim]

Get over the $2000, I was just saying *I* wouldn't mind that cost if it meant safer roads, I understand it won't work in 'Murica.

I also did the driver's class through my school and we didn't parallel park, but luckily my parents still taught me.

Kaan I don't think I'm suggesting that we kill people's freedoms, I just wish "we" as a country were looking for ways to improve our driver education system instead of just relying on new car safety tech.

[Senor_Taylor]

I think insurance discounts for driving classes is the way to go.

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[Evan]

We cant require people to get a FREE dmv ID in order to stop rampant voter fraud because its OPPRESSING THE BROWN PEOPLE!!!
You guys are living in la-la land if you think there is any possibility of charging $2k for a drivers license.
(here where the attitude is driving is a right)