G.Irish Wrote:It kinda pisses me off when people say stuff like, "I saw it coming" or "It was gonna happen sooner or later" like somehow they know more than he does or that he didn't know what he was doing. Its easy for the average person who takes zero risk in their life to criticize those that take great risks for a passion they have or a cause that they believe in. That's what makes great people great, and I admire him for it.
no disrespect to him, but he did live dangerously. sure i dont know much about animals compared to him, but his passion is waht got him killed. from what it seems like, it is basically a freak accident that a sting ray was able to get him in the heart, but those dont normally kill unless it feels threatened. it most likely stung him because it was threatened by him, just so happens it was in his heart. most animals dont attack unless they feel threatened by your presence or you're in their territory or you're provoking it and this seems to be no different. his popularity was based on all the risks that he took wit the animals as goodspeed said, not just on showing some film footage shot with a super zoom lens from several hundreds of feet away. regardless, it is really sad and he truely was passionate about what he'd done and you can't knock him for that.
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I was kinda upset when I read the articles because I, like many others, always kinda saw him as invincible. Yeah, he played with some truly deadly animals, but he always seemed to know his shit, even if he pushed the line sometimes. However, the fact that a ray got him kinda upset me. These things are about as non-lethal as you can get, considering what his passion was.
There have only been, IIRC, 17 deaths by stingray in Australia since 1965. The one he was observing was apparently rather large (approx. 4 feet wide) and may have felt cornered between Steve and the cameraman. Furthermore, apparently tiger sharks feed on rays and right now the sharks are out in full force. It truly is a freak of nature that it was actually able to swing its tail in such a way as to put the spike (which I believe was about 10-15 cm long) between his ribs into his torso, but some of these rays are so strong that they have also been known to get the spine stuck in wooden boats when aggravated. Also consider the spine injects an extremely painful toxin and the spine is similar to a serrated knife and you have a quite an opponent.
It really sucks that his kids are so young and that he become such a figurehead for the conservation movement, as both parties will be sorely missed. I always thought he was a bit nuts, but he made nature fun and interesting, which is something that is never done enough to make the general public realize how fascinating it can be. Yeah, something bad would happen eventually, but I figured it would have been a tousle with a croc or something where his crew might be able to help, not something where he'd take a quick hit and be dead a few seconds later. If nothing else, at least he got to go doing something that he was absolutely passionate about. He definitely left his mark on the world and will be sorely missed. I lofe the fact that Queensland is offering any help they can to his family.
OK, the biologist in me came out a bit just then.
Maengelito Wrote:G.Irish Wrote:It kinda pisses me off when people say stuff like, "I saw it coming" or "It was gonna happen sooner or later" like somehow they know more than he does or that he didn't know what he was doing. Its easy for the average person who takes zero risk in their life to criticize those that take great risks for a passion they have or a cause that they believe in. That's what makes great people great, and I admire him for it.
no disrespect to him, but he did live dangerously. sure i dont know much about animals compared to him, but his passion is waht got him killed. from what it seems like, it is basically a freak accident that a sting ray was able to get him in the heart, but those dont normally kill unless it feels threatened. it most likely stung him because it was threatened by him, just so happens it was in his heart. most animals dont attack unless they feel threatened by your presence or you're in their territory or you're provoking it and this seems to be no different. his popularity was based on all the risks that he took wit the animals as goodspeed said, not just on showing some film footage shot with a super zoom lens from several hundreds of feet away. regardless, it is really sad and he truely was passionate about what he'd done and you can't knock him for that. From all accounts (and there is video to back it up) he was not provoking or harassing the stingray at all. He just happened to be swimming over it in shallow water and the camera man was in front of it and it probably felt cornered.
I don't know how anyone could say the man didn't respect the animals he was interacting with. Not once did you ever see him pinning a snake's head down or choking them or stepping on them. He rarely if ever tranquilized any of the crocodiles because it would be more dangerous for the animal. The man rescued crocodiles since he was a child. He cried like a baby on international television when his oldest crocodile died.
He got close to the animals to show that they are not vicious monsters intent on killing or harming people. He showed that even some of the deadliest snakes were perfectly content to hang out once they knew he wasn't trying to harm them. One of his colleagues was saying that they got letters/email from people who said that they'd run over snakes or kill them for no reason before they started watching his show and gaining an appreciation for them.
Was it dangerous? Sure, he always made sure to emphasize that people shouldn't emulate what he does. But he was skilled and experienced with handling the animals, if he were being reckless he wouldn't have made it to 44 years of age.
I guess it rubs me the wrong way because people say the same crap about racers and motorcyclists. Usually people who don't have any idea of what they're talking about.
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G.Irish Wrote:I guess it rubs me the wrong way because people say the same crap about racers and motorcyclists. Usually people who don't have any idea of what they're talking about.
This is precisely what pops into my mind when I hear that he had it coming. What do people say about us when we wreck a car or get injured? Let's face it, sometimes people die in our hobby too. Do we all have it coming? I recognize that on a long enough time frame we'll all eventually get some bent sheet metal if we choose to drive in aggressive groups, but that doesn't mean that we are going out driving like retards at extreme speeds without any protection and throwing caution to the wind. Irwin respected every creature he handled and did a great public service by showing that all of these animals are only defending themselves when they harm us. It is just unfortunate that he fell victim to what he had been teaching and by fluke accident was killed.
Dave Wrote:It really sucks that his kids are so young and that he become such a figurehead for the conservation movement, as both parties will be sorely missed.
With any luck his kids/wife will gain energy from this unfortunate event and go on to make his vision a reality with even more passion.
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G.Irish Wrote:It kinda pisses me off when people say stuff like, "I saw it coming" or "It was gonna happen sooner or later" like somehow they know more than he does or that he didn't know what he was doing. Its easy for the average person who takes zero risk in their life to criticize those that take great risks for a passion they have or a cause that they believe in.
Don't get too upset about it, they ARE technically right. And same with people riding bikes, and racing cars, and all that stuff. Maybe it's just the words used that piss you off? In any hobby, or lifestyle, or whatever, if you recognize the risk involved, you do what you can to mitigate it, but you shouldn't feel offended when someone points out that it's more risky than sitting at a desk or watching TV.
I'm quite sure Steve Irwin knew his job was riskier than most. If you consider him an intelligent person, he had to know that no matter what he did, he was more likely to get killed by an animal than say, you or me. His exposure to it was very high. I'm sure both he and his family understood what he did, supported it, and had at least to some degree come to grips with the fact that he had a greater risk of being here one day and gone the next.
So while I'd give someone the stink eye and get defensive too if they say "he deserved it" or "he had it coming", just as I would if they said that about a fellow motorsport enthusiast after he hit a tree, just saying that it was bound to happen sooner or later... well, they might have been right. It may very well have been the most risky activity that person did, and therefore the most likely to kill them. No surprise there.
Honestly I think it's more odd when people say they're surprised that he was killed on the job. I'm not. Obviously they didn't put very much thought into it. It would be like saying you're surprised a soldier was shot, or a NASCAR driver got in a bad accident.
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BLINGMW Wrote:Don't get too upset about it, they ARE technically right. And same with people riding bikes, and racing cars, and all that stuff. Maybe it's just the words used that piss you off? In any hobby, or lifestyle, or whatever, if you recognize the risk involved, you do what you can to mitigate it, but you shouldn't feel offended when someone points out that it's more risky than sitting at a desk or watching TV. Thats the thing, when you say "he had it coming" is the same thing as saying "he is an idiot, didnt know what he was doing, and was not being safe and its only a matter of time"
You say that about someone who really likes to play russian roullete.
Sure he may not have been on the better side of the dice if you compare what he did to an office job, but Id hardly say he had it coming.
And its also a pretty shitty attitude towards the recently departed.
I think if someone said of Senna or Villeneuve that they had it coming, you would probably be tempted to punch them in the face. or just stab them.
if it's a stabbin you're talking about, you ALL have it coming. :wink:
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Does anyone have a link to the video? I can't find it.
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G.Irish Wrote:I don't know how anyone could say the man didn't respect the animals he was interacting with. Not once did you ever see him pinning a snake's head down or choking them or stepping on them. He rarely if ever tranquilized any of the crocodiles because it would be more dangerous for the animal. The man rescued crocodiles since he was a child. He cried like a baby on international television when his oldest crocodile died.
He got close to the animals to show that they are not vicious monsters intent on killing or harming people. He showed that even some of the deadliest snakes were perfectly content to hang out once they knew he wasn't trying to harm them. One of his colleagues was saying that they got letters/email from people who said that they'd run over snakes or kill them for no reason before they started watching his show and gaining an appreciation for them.
Was it dangerous? Sure, he always made sure to emphasize that people shouldn't emulate what he does. But he was skilled and experienced with handling the animals, if he were being reckless he wouldn't have made it to 44 years of age.
I guess it rubs me the wrong way because people say the same crap about racers and motorcyclists. Usually people who don't have any idea of what they're talking about.
i'm not saying he disrespected animals or fucked with them to get'em all riled up. quite the opposite as you pointed out. he did bring an appreciation to all sorts of animals that normally most people would be freaked out about being near. thats why he was popular. i dont think he was a retard or an idiot for what he did, but his occupation is riskier than yours or mine. does it surprise me that he was killed by an animal? no, because he was around them so much, especially ones that can be known to be violent. no matter how used to them you are or how much you understand them, you can get complacent or some freak accident can occur. i thought he was awesome, so i am saddened by his death, but i'm not surprised by it
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You don't HAVE to jump in the water with dangerous animals, you don't HAVE to wrestle crocodiles or grab poisonous snakes by the face in order to promote awareness of the need for their conservation. Sure, for him it worked because of his personality, but look at that fucking retard who studied grizzly bears and was eaten by one because he admittedly did stupid shit around them.
The same thing could be said for motorsports. You don't HAVE to ride a bike at all, or you don't HAVE to race your car at speeds of 100+ on a track to enjoy or promote motorsports (many of the people in our club fall into this category). It all comes down to what kinds of risks you're willing to take, and whether or not you're comfortable with the possible outcomes of those risks.
The bottom line was that, although an amazing father, husband, and wildlife conservationist, Steve Irwin consistently engaged in extremely risky behavior... and a VERY strong argument could be made that a lot of that risk was unnecessary in order to attain his goals. There are people that do it all the time. Now the guy has left a widow and two children, but I'm sure his legacy and goals will live on through them.
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Feersty Wrote:Does anyone have a link to the video? I can't find it.
I seriously doubt they'll release the video.
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i watched the Larry King interview where they talked to the cameraman and his producer....it was pretty hard to watch. it's kind of shameful to admit it but i can't remember being so saddened by a celebrity or leader's death.
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so apparently he pulled the barb out which really fucked him over...
Feersty Wrote:Does anyone have a link to the video? I can't find it.
:?:
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
.RJ Wrote:Feersty Wrote:Does anyone have a link to the video? I can't find it.
:?:
i think rob is asking about the video that was captured during the incident.
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ScottyB Wrote:i watched the Larry King interview where they talked to the cameraman and his producer....it was pretty hard to watch. it's kind of shameful to admit it but i can't remember being so saddened by a celebrity or leader's death. sadly, I kinda feel the same way.
Dave Wrote:ScottyB Wrote:i watched the Larry King interview where they talked to the cameraman and his producer....it was pretty hard to watch. it's kind of shameful to admit it but i can't remember being so saddened by a celebrity or leader's death. sadly, I kinda feel the same way. Agreed. He was a great guy and the more I learned about him, mostly after his death, the more I was saddened by the news. Not only did he open the world's eyes to the nature of misunderstood animals, but he apparently did a lot of very important actual conservation work for the AU government. He helped push environmental reform in government and didn't just sit on his ass next to scary snakes to make a buck doing what he loved. He was really passionate about what he did and everyone can agree that he worked for a good cause.
I'll always laugh at his funny accent if I see him on TV, and point out that it's stupid to sit that close to a croc, but man, I respect that guy. Hopefully, like everyone said, the family moves on respecting the life that he led and the animals that he revered so much.
Dave Wrote:There have only been, IIRC, 17 deaths by stingray in Australia since 1965. LOL... you mean, IIGC? If I Googled Correctly? HAHAHA...
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