So tonight I remote-started my car, and as I walk up to it a few minutes later I can hear a faint whine from the rear. Getting down on my hands and knees I find that its coming from the fuel pump. Its faint but noticeable when standing normally next to the car, and it got louder for about 2 seconds when I shut the car off.
I'm guessing age (20 yrs. old) got the best of it, but I did run the tank down to E before filling it up a few days ago. I have read that Walbro's are especially susceptible to damage from starvation, but I honestly didn't even think about it with the factory pump. The car did have troubles sometimes starting on a hot day after sitting for a while, which I've read is also a sign of death approaching; I didn't learn this however until it had been doing that for a few weeks.
So my question is, how long do you think I have before it takes a dump? I will have a Walbro 255lph on the way in the morning, but I just want to make sure I can make it a few days of 4 mile total commutes without it dying on me. Speaking of which, when one dies, does the car just sputter out like it ran out of gas, or will it cause a lean condition and resultant damage? I'm pretty worried about this so I want to make sure I stay safe.
Lastly, and I've always presumed this (just want to be 100% sure), but one can install a more capable fuel pump w/o having to install larger injectors, correct? As in, a 255lph pump doesn't necessitate >440cc stock injectors, it'll just flow what the ECU/injectors need with room to spare right? I haven't gotten my hands dirty with anything fuel related yet so I'm not positive on this.
Thanks for your help, I hope I can get this taken care of ASAP.
You can run the Walbro fine with no other changes. I don't know what would happen if your fuel pump dies while you're driving. I wouldn't think it would create a lean condition because your car would basically just die if it stopped receiving fuel. If you're going to keep driving around on it until you get the Walbro, I would definitely stay out of boost though... if you're just crusing at 1.5k-2k rpms and fuel was cut I can't see there being any damage done to your engine.
Posting in the banalist of threads since 2004
2017 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD Premium
Past: 2016 GMC Canyon All Terrain Crew Cab / 2010 Jaguar XFR / 2012 Acura RDX AWD Tech / 2008 Cadillac CTS / 2007 Acura TL-S / 1966 5.0 HO Mustang Coupe
2001 Lexus IS300 / 2004 2.8L big turbo WRX STI / 2004 Subaru WRX / A couple of old trucks
Depends on if it dies a slow agonizing death or if it just grenades on you.
Most likely it will just lose enough fuel pressure and the engine will just shut off, but there is always the possibility that it will die slow and you'll run lean, but probably not lean enough to hurt anything.
2014 Tacoma TRD Sport Double cab
2017 Toyota iA/Mazda 2
Thanks for the replies. The car won't be driven I've decided until the new pump is installed. There are a lot of hills around here that necessitate harder driving than is probably safe, so I'd rather be safe than sorry.
I've posed a question on the Supra boards about this 12v fuel pump mod I keep reading about, I'm trying to figure out what it is and if it is necessary but other than that it appears to be a simple install. Well, simple other than the fact that I have ~13 gallons in the tank right now!
I did my fuel pump with a 3/4 tank in the Hunters Ridge parking lot which officially makes me a badass. Gasoline is less flammable than fumes so a full tank is best, other than getting gas on your hands.
Have you found a site that has walbro parts? For my car you need some sort of rubber sleeve that goes around the pump to fit in the stock mount, a screen for the intake, and something else, maybe a wiring harness but I don't remember. If you need parts I can dig it up again.
Oh, and you won't run rich because your fuel pressure regulator will keep too much fuel from hitting the fuel rail so you're good.
Current:
- 1993 325is Black/Black 97 STX Christine
-2015 Ford Fiesta ST OW Ms Fiesty
Past:
-2002 Ford Ranger 4.0 XL 5MT AKA Goldy Locks
I'm just buying the Walbro kit for my car which comes with the pump and the installation kit which I'm pretty positive is all I need. Another noob-ish question (but i've never had to do it), what is the best way to get all the gas out? Theres the line going to the pump and the fuel filler tube, I hope it isn't a situation where I just have to yank the feed line and get gas everywhere. Other than inhaling on a hose going into your tank, is there a "good" way to do it?
You really don't need to worry about the lean condition all that much, but I'd stay out of high boost until you put in the new pump. Running at normal engine *could* lean out and do damage, but it would probably just sputter out before that could happen. The damage usually occurs (from what I understand) when you're under boost and dumping tons of air in and the meter "thinks" it is dumping in the appropriate amount of fuel and proper timing, except the gas really isn't there and heat escalates until the block ventilates itself.
You can put the new pump in w/o doing any upgrades anywhere else in your system. The upgraded capacity just gives you the ability to feed a higher-flowing set of injectors and your return line will just dump any unused gas back in the tank.
Its been such a long time since I did the Walbro in mk3, but I don't recall it being a hard install (it will fit right in place of the old one, look it up in your shop manual). If you have to drop the tank, i'd run the car until it's almost empty so you don't to deal with much gas.
all (most?) cars have a plug on the bottom of the tank that will drain it
Goodspeed Wrote:I've posed a question on the Supra boards about this 12v fuel pump mod I keep reading about, I'm trying to figure out what it is and if it is necessary but other than that it appears to be a simple install.
If its anything like what im thinking about, ie DIZZUM SPEAK....
Sounds like a simple fuel pump rewire, where you run your FP power straight from the battery and add a relay that ties in to the signal from the Stock Fuel pump relay. Or you can use the stock relay but just reroute the power source going to and from the Stock Relay.
This basically guarantees your FP has 12V all the time giving you max fuel output. Where sometimes it will drop below 12v going through the factory system and the FP wont be running its Max output.
Sounds like the same as what is common in our world.
SHEP IS GOD.....
^^ Ditto on the 12v.
You dont need to worry about installing the 255 UNLESS you have heard about "overrun". I dont know if this is common on supras, but many stock return lines or fprs, cannot deal with a 255 at idle, and will not properly control it allowing fuel pressure to run high and cause an overly rich condition at idle, but not at cruise or acceleration where there is enough flowing into the injectors that not that much fuel is being returned.
A dying fuel pump is a hit or miss. If it dies immediately instead of going weak, your car will just shut off, no damage, itll be like you were engine braking (because literally thats how your car engine brakes). If it becomes weak, your computer will think its still sending the right amount of fuel and will cause a lean condition.
Oh and installing the fuel pump in the parking lot is fine, we did jason's fuel pump in just a few minutes (minus the drive over to ET because the fuel pump we got sent was for a 1g, not a 2g).
2020 Ford Raptor
2009 Z06
1986.5 Porsche 928S
Thanks for the info. The Walbro and install kit is on the way, and I'll be doing the 12V mod. After a lot of reading and Q&A on other boards the consensus is that 1) Walbro pumps like to die relatively quickly if not given the 12 volts they need and 2) The stock ECU varies voltage to the pump; not doing the constant 12 volt mod can hurt your AFR's as the ECU has been known to cut power when it needs it most.
And about the full tank of gas, I knew there was an easy way to do it (from like, 3rd grade science), so I read up on siphoning gas and I should be able to do it with a 6-7 foot length of tubing, a chair, and a big drain pan from Advance.
Goodspeed Wrote:And about the full tank of gas, I knew there was an easy way to do it (from like, 3rd grade science), so I read up on siphoning gas and I should be able to do it with a 6-7 foot length of tubing, a chair, and a big drain pan from Advance.
Get a pump from AAP while you're there, save your brain cells.
1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442
Have you actually measured the fuel pressure at the rail or are you just assuming the pump is dying because it's loud? The pump on the SHO sounds like a TV test tone - it has for the past 40k miles.
Also, be careful about putting a 255 in without running a FPR. Depending on the return system it can actually make the car run lean at high RPM.
Why do people just post what they are thinking? Without thinking.
2012 Ford Mustang
1995 BMW 540i/A
1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD
ViPER1313 Wrote:Have you actually measured the fuel pressure at the rail or are you just assuming the pump is dying because it's loud? The pump on the SHO sounds like a TV test tone - it has for the past 40k miles.
Also, be careful about putting a 255 in without running a FPR. Depending on the return system it can actually make the car run lean at high RPM.
The pump started to make a constant audible whine that it didn't before, and before that, the car had trouble starting on hot days <-- both signs of a failing fuel pump.
I'll just change (hardly) my driving style until I can finish the fuel system. I pretty much decided on the 255 to allow expansion to a FPR/Injectors etc. which I'll do in the future. I honestly don't floor it ever and hit high rpms. I think I've gone WOT twice in the last 3 months, and I short shift like its my job.
Quote: I pretty much decided on the 255 to allow expansion to a FPR/Injectors etc
Quote:the stock ECU varies voltage to the pump
Am I reading this right, the Supra does not have a fuel pressure regulator?
The ECU varies the voltage to the pump to adjust fuel pressure?
Never heard of this strategy before and just want to make sure I understand what's going on.
Current: 1985 LS1 Corvette | 2014 328i Wagon F31
Former: 2010 Ford Edge | 1999 Integra GS
I have a little bit of a rub near lock but if you are turned to lock on a track there are other problems already...
Steve85 Wrote:Am I reading this right, the Supra does not have a fuel pressure regulator?
The ECU varies the voltage to the pump to adjust fuel pressure?
Never heard of this strategy before and just want to make sure I understand what's going on.
I meant an upgrade to an aftermarket FPR (Aeromotive...which I might do very soon). I don't know about every other car, but it appears in the MK3 the ECU varies voltage to the stock pump between 9 and 12 volts, depending on conditions. The stock FPR keeps it at a constant pressure, but my understanding is the volume of fuel flowed by the stock pump (???lph) varies by the power it is given.
Edit: Dammit, down the rabbit hole I go. After further tech reading (from my n00b perspective), running a Walbro on the stock FPR is possible, but many have experienced trouble in the future. I'd rather take the headache now. So, time to get a FPR.
Is it true that FPR's don't come with any kind of install kit? It looks like I'll have to now buy the FPR, and this kit.
And my understanding is....fuel rail outlet -------->either side of fpr(plug other side) - bottom of fpr------> stock return line?
So the install seems relatively easy, but what about making these things work? Do you have to set it, do they ramp up pressure per PSI of boost? I think stock the MK3 FPR runs at 33-40 psi.
F%ck!
OK, so it does have an FPR it's just not adjustable. Good, I thought wtf?
I'm guessing your looking at the Aeromotive 13109 adjustable FPR (same as I have, a nice piece). You set the base pressure then it will increase pressure with boost. Same as an N/A car, as vacuum goes away in the manifold (pressure increases) more fuel pressure is needed in the rail. So your existing FPR does this is, you just can't change the base setting.
Your plumbing sounds right if it's Aero PN 13109. Make sure you get the right fittings for the inlet port and plug, they require an O-ring. If you get it from Summit they will list the fittings under suggested parts (SUM-220166)
Current: 1985 LS1 Corvette | 2014 328i Wagon F31
Former: 2010 Ford Edge | 1999 Integra GS
I have a little bit of a rub near lock but if you are turned to lock on a track there are other problems already...
Thanks Steve, your response cleared my head and dumbed down my overthinking :lol:
I'm ordering the Driftmotion complete kit, its pricey but includes everything, from 13109 FPR, to all SS tubing and fittings, liquid filled gauge, shock-tower mounting plate and a nifty J-tube blockoff, which I didn't notice earlier from looking over my TSRM bible and probably would've owned me:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthr...light=tube
Spending 6 consecutive hours reading tech threads pays off I guess.
Goodspeed, while you're in there you might as well replace or eliminate your FPD if you've got one. I know my 1J had one and it pretty much did nothing but cause leaks.
1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Goodspeed, while you're in there you might as well replace or eliminate your FPD if you've got one. I know my 1J had one and it pretty much did nothing but cause leaks.
The fuel pulsation dampenener? I've thought about eliminating it, but I've heard it can be a good thing and I just replaced it a few months ago with a brand new one. It so far hasn't caused me any leaks like the 20 y/o old did when it went out....
|
