Too Cool For School

[GTBrandon]

After three years at JMU, it's finally starting to sink in that I won't be here too much longer. I always looked forward to graduating, getting a real job, and being on my own. Now that the reality is coming closer with every passing scantron exam, I am starting to wonder about how life will actually play out after I walk across that stage. I want to see what you all did, what you didn't, what you wished you did, and everything in between.

This came about when I was looking between getting a project race car and dd, or just a fun daily that could also do track duty. I started making me wonder how much free time do you actually have when you get out of school and start your first job. Are you working so hard to impress your bosses that free time is a thing of the past? Or are you sitting at your desk on GroupMe harassing college students over the internet? 

Did you stay in the state where you grew up/where JMU was, or did you take a job in another state? I've been thinking of eventually moving out to Colorado after growing up in VA all my life. Thinking it might be a smarter move to get a job in VA first, then transfer over to whatever state once I get comfortable in my industry. Is this how you get trapped in a state forever though? Do you wish you had gone to a new state right out of college for your first job? 

Was money tighter than you expected when you started budgeting for yourself, buying furniture for apartments, going out to eat with colleagues, etc? Do you wish you had refrained from spending on anything, or maybe wished you had spent more on bars for networking or furniture for your empty apartment? Did you ask for your first raise to accommodate your lifestyle, or was it given to you over time?

What else did I miss? How were your first few years out of college? Lay the truth on me, scare me from ever leaving, convince me to take up a double major and become the first ever 10th year at JMU.

[Jake]

Ooh this will be fun. Buckle up, boyo.

I was fortunate to graduate with no student loans. That gave me a lot of freedom that some friends didn't initially have, and they can comment on that as appropriate. Regardless, I was taught about saving for things I wanted as a kid, but didn't grasp how expensive life could be until I graduated. I definitely didn't feel like I had a good enough cushion saved up when I graduated. It all worked out but it was tight.

I got an apartment with our esteemed yellow BMW owner Joey. We paid far too much for a 2BR place in Fairfax (rent was $1100 each) because we wanted a garage to work on our excessive amount of cars. I had a 1991 BMW 535i with no working heater and my 1995 Miata that was low and stiff but ultimately could have been a fine daily driver for a year or so if I didn't just want another toy (the E34). Joey had the M3 and a motorcycle.

We both didn't have credit cards in college which meant we had no credit history. It was a struggle to get utilities turned on for the apartment. We had to come up from JMU and go in to DC to show Washington Gas our drivers' licenses just to get gas service. Anyway, we got credit cards (which I know you already have, this will help a lot) and after the first six months or so, no big deal. I was going out here and there but NOT buying drinks for all my friends. It was possible to have some fun but not spend too excessively. I remember buying the $450ish rollbar for my Miata and that was a huge expense that month.

We had furniture from college apartments, but also bought a few things at the new place. Food and gas add up quickly, plus a gym membership if you want one. Remember to save for personal property tax on your car(s) as that bill comes every fall. I was paying my own cell phone bill and car insurance since day one of college so those expenses stayed pretty constant.

After the first year, Joey's now-fiancee moved in with us and we got a bigger townhouse up the street. Rent-per-person went down and we got raises at work so that helped. My first salary was $40k which was simultaneously "a lot" at the time and not enough at all. I blew up the Miata engine (well, it did it to itself) and the car had to sit for a year while I slowly pieced together what I needed to fix it. I had sold the E34 and bought the green 325i, which thankfully proved reliable. When the Miata blew up, I panicked and sold the E36 as it would clearly soon face the same fate (I was dumb) - so I picked up a brand new Focus ST. I put $6500 down and most banks didn't want to give me a loan for the remaining $20k. SunTrust did.

Ended up not liking the FoST like I thought, ditched it for a 128i and lost my shirt on depreciation on the Ford. I should have kept the green E36, sold the broken Miata, and bought a truck to start DDing/towing my green 325i track car. Changed jobs when I lived with Joey and Lauren which was also a career shift. Yay, a lot more money. Moved in with DJ for a year and then out to Alexandria after that. It's now been a handful of years since and obviously the income and career have both progressed nicely.

I never intended to stay in NoVA after college. I grew up here, I wanted to go elsewhere, but the internship at AOL that I had between junior and senior year turned into the best full-time offer I had at the time. So, I stayed. Then I changed careers and that took off. Oops. I am fortunate now with Slalom that we have 24 other offices I can look to if i want to move, and basically re-interview with that market's management, which sounds pretty simple.

"Asking for your first raise to accommodate your lifestyle" is something that you WILL be laughed at if you try. You ask for raises when you are given more responsibility or take on more responsibility, are producing results, and deserve to be compensated adequately for that additional load. I got a raise from $40k to about $46k because I took on more work and asked my department head at that point. You will get bigger raises by changing companies vs just staying with one for a long time.

Save some money now, stick to just one car, and don't go too hog wild your first few years out of school on the racecar thing. DJ and I did and it requires some commitment that will take away time and money to do other things. You can still work for NASA and do HPDE here and there.

[D_Eclipse9916]

We talked a little about this on the groupme. Everyone is different so it's tough to say.

#1 While college was fun, the real world is far more fun. It's harder, it's terrifying; and sometime it just sucks; but the freedom it entails is worth it.

If you are *thinking* about moving somewhere after college, DO IT. Don't wait! It's easy to get stuck someplace because the next "promotion" is around the corner or the guy you just networked with is offering you your next sweet gig...in the area. You will never have the time to just check out other areas then your early 20s. And it really doesn't stunt your career unless you have specific objectives. I didn't even think of moving anywhere else so I don't regret not doing that. IF it's on your mind and you don't do it; you'll regret it.

Plenty of "free" time to choose what you want to do. Choose to hammer down and do 60 hour work weeks and every night out networking/barhopping? Sure, if that's your thing. Work 8 hours then smoke a joint and play video games all night? Sure. You'll have the choice to do whatever you want, you are your own guide.

Money? The realization bills are expensive, retirement planning is expensive, just living is expensive. I never was paycheck to paycheck and never felt super tight since I lived at home socking away money for a house, but certainly the idea of a $30k car was completely out of my realm the first few years out of college. While I didn't max out my 401k the first couple years (If you can afford to put away $18.5k post tax on a $40-$60k gross job you are better than I am); make sure you are at least socking away a good portion of it.

FYI I did 2-3 HPDEs a year until 2 years out of college. I didn't just up and go racing the day I got a job. Hell I didn't go racing until almost 3 years after graduating in a M3 with bilsteins, a plywood splitter, and a OMG I just blew my budget $1k wing. I maybe had $14k into the car by then with a $16k Yukon and $1500 trailer...... 3 years after graduating.

[Jake]

I never was paycheck to paycheck and never felt super tight since I lived at home socking away money for a house, but certainly the idea of a $30k car was completely out of my realm the first few years out of college.  

I had several friends who moved home and were able to save a lot of money. My folks said I could move back but I didn't want to, just to prove to myself that I could be that independent from day one. It wasn't fiscally smart at all but it did work out in the end (although between that and the racecar I absolutely don't have money for a house). And, DJ's mom lived in a far more desirable area than my parents for the sake of being near after-work fun. 

Definitely some options though. Joey and I could have taken on another roommate or two and cut our expenses quite a bit, but we chose to just live the two of us. Cabell lived in a kind of group house in Vienna and had a good thing going on that allowed him to pay off student loans very quickly as rent was cheap.

[Deceus]

Later means never, do whatever it takes to move ASAP, everything else is subjective. Personally my biggest regret was putting so much time into dating and my social life in general right out of school. Not advocating being a hermit but going out for the sake going out and having friends for the sake of having friends was a complete waste of time and money. Seems like really obvious advice when put that way but it was hard to see it that way when I was terrified of becoming a 9-5 wage slave.

Had I put even half that time and energy into something like mobile development or creating basic web development tutorials I would likely be a millionaire right now. Even if I wasn't I would have gotten a lot more out of my 20s.

[Sijray21]

Post-graduation was kind of scary since i didn't really know what it was like to NOT be in school, but it's awesome. the hardest part is finding your first job and putting in those hours. Keeping your expenses in-check will help you have fun with the time after college, so learn how to manage your money early. i did a lot of buying/selling of cars and motorcycles, but never any loans. I've always kept my rent down and lived with friends. I never paid more than $750/mo in rent for my first 3 years after college and i've lived in Springfield, Oakton, and Arlington during those times; that freed up a lot of money for other fun things. I also didn't have student loans to pay down or any other debt. I always felt that my mom would take me in if shit hit the fan, so that was reassuring.

The first 2-3 years after college were fun. Before starting my first job i drove across the country with my mom staying in hotels and seeing the sites, something we both wanted to do for a while. I HPDE'd my Civic and Integra a bunch of times, i started tracking the sport bikes i had, i traveled for work a bunch, partied with friends at bars, after realizing i was spending too much money at the bars i dialed that down, and started really saving money after the 3 year mark when i realized that i didn't want to rent my whole life and i had the job that paid enough to do that. I did put in long hours at that travel job (50-60+). I definitely felt burned out after a while, but i had good bosses that also recognized that. I realized that i was getting paid for 40 billable hours a week and working 60+ and not getting compensated for that is essentially bringing down your salary. I respectfully communicated my frustrations to him and he offered me a discretionary bonus if i showed him the hours i was putting in. The one caveat I'll put in there is despite the hours i was learning quite a bit albeit under stressful hours/circumstances and that has helped me to land nicer future jobs.

I did end up quitting my job 3.5 years after entering the working field because i didn't enjoy what i was doing for work and i didn't want to travel any more. I moved back in with my mom for 4 months in September 2008 before landing a good job in January 2009. Luckily i did have a stockpile of money i was sitting on from 3 different bonuses that hit just before i left and being rent free helped me to stretch any funds. I did make the mistake of leaving a few weeks before my 2 year mark at SAP (travel job) where i would've have went from 50% vested to 100% vested in my 401(k) i had with them. That lost me about $6k in money at the time (i calculated the future money i lost; that was depressing). Pay attention to vesting schedules for things if you plan on resigning. I also didn't know too much about how pensions and savings, 401(k)s, investments worked at the time; those are fairly important and the earlier you get started on those the earlier you can retire or be financially independent if that's important to you.

[Beej]

Good questions.  It’s a big jump to make into a lot of unknowns.  Trying to keep it brief.

First I owe my parents big, and I didn't have student loans. I went home and did a non-related job while chasing a girl for a year out of school.  In hindsight it was clear it’d been over a long time, but broken hearts are broken hearts.

After that, I took a relatively low-paying software testing job at a small company (I was employee 30-something), and spent half a years worth of salary on an S2000. That job eventually moved into a much better paying development job. I did not switch companies, asked for and received good raises (make yourself valuable early on and you may see 40%) and bonuses.  It seems I’m the outlier in the not-switching-companies thing; out-of-cycle raises, where they aren't pulling from strictly limited annual number, were where I saw my best raises - it also got harder as the company got bigger.  It was not uncommon to have periods where 60hr weeks were needed.  That company got bought, then merged, then merged again - each time we got bigger, the culture got worse.  Thankfully I'm 100% billable and can keep away from that for the most part.

Money was tight for years.  I always matched my 401k, was above water day-to-day (never carried a balance, etc), and lived comfortably, but I didn’t save much for a long time.  On like $68k, I had a $28k STi, a $10k e30, and another e30 paperweight, and my priorities were much more in the direction of my social life than any other hobbies.  Every month was “I’ll have this one big expense this month, then save next one.”  Felt like that lasted years.

I eventually unloaded the cars and moved to DC proper.  SocialLife++, and it was easier to save without the cars, as well.  Probably some of my favorite years from my 20’s, did some traveling, and then bailed out of the DC area, hopefully never to return.  Chased a different girl down to Norfolk (keeping job, working remotely), bought an M3, and both things worked out perfectly.

That about covers the first 3-4 years.

My lessons?  Spending on the social life was worth it.  I'm only in touch with a few people from 'the group', and loosely, but they were still very formative years of my life.  I sorta regret never making tracking a priority, but that’s just naturally how it happened - hell I even lived in MM Arlington with G and Mikey who were out there and still never went that direction.  But money was tight enough that if you want to do something like that, you do have to prioritize.  And this may seem way off from the first 3-4 years, but it does impact planning during those years: I'm glad I spent the time single/dating as much as I did, but now that I am older, I wish I was a little younger when I started having kids, for their sake at least.  Last one: educate yourself on the basics of personal finance.  It's shameful that it isn't taught in high school, and I still don't consider myself as well informed as I'd like to be.

Did not keep it brief.

[Sijray21]

I never was paycheck to paycheck and never felt super tight since I lived at home socking away money for a house, but certainly the idea of a $30k car was completely out of my realm the first few years out of college.  

I had several friends who moved home and were able to save a lot of money. My folks said I could move back but I didn't want to, just to prove to myself that I could be that independent from day one.

I had a very similar situation. I just didn't want to be under my mom's thumb for decisions i wanted to make. I would usually have to answer to her if i stayed out late or did something she didn't like; it was annoying. I transferred my car insurance (woof...that was high), my cell phone contract, and a bunch of things to basically be on my own. It worked out because when i told her i was getting a motorcycle she flipped out and told me i couldn't. I then just mentioned in a polite manner, "i appreciate your concern, but you can't stop me". She ended up actually dropping me off in DC for my first motorcycle purchase. When we got home she asked if/when she could get a ride, haha.

[WRXtranceformed]

Lots of good advice here so I won't wax poetic. But I was also fortunate not to graduate with student loans, lived with ma dukes since she was single for about 2 years out of college to save up some money to eventually buy a house. Put my nose to the absolute grindstone from day one (and probably lost a few years off the end of my life) working in construction and made good money for a first job (+/- $68k). Blew a ton of it on several cars and an expensive all-out build but never spent above my means or went into CC debt for it, paid cash for everything other than the auto loans which helped me build my credit. If you're going to spend recklessly, doing it young is the time to do it, but definitely make sure you're saving too at minimum into your employer's 401k so you get the benefit of the match. Oh and again: Don't spend above your means. The real world can be fun with social stuff, all of your friends are going through the same thing so you'll probably still engage in some of the same shenanigans for a bit until a significant other makes an honest man out of you.

I dunno, be excited about entering the working world! It's fun to support yourself. I never loved school because I hated the idea of paying to do work. Hence why I always had a job through school and worked on all of my breaks when all of my friends were going to Cancun and doing stupid stuff / running up credit card debt.

[Sijray21]

There's always that 'grass is greener' syndrome with getting out of NoVA. (are we opening that can of worms again...?)

When I traveled for work I was all over the country doing work on client sites. I saw a lot of different places in the US and most of the time it had me appreciate certain things I took for granted. Proximity to DC (a really neat city, IMO), 4 seasons for weather, and proximity to family. I think the worst thing about the nova area is the traffic, but I've been in bad, if not worse, traffic in LA, Chicago, NYC, Boston, and Dallas/Fort Worth. I still wonder what it would be like to live in a place that gets more snow since I love the white stuff, but I just travel and vacation in places I want to be to scratch that itch. My priorities are changing now with the kiddo growing up, but I'm happy with where i am for now.

Edit: One of our (the wife's) bigger priorities is living closer to my sister-in-law, but she's in Boston now and may be somewhere across the country in a couple years. Ideally my wife wants to live within driving distance of her sister. I'm just along for the ride and enjoy any kind of new exciting places to be as long as we don't put ourselves in a bad financial situation and we stabilize our daughter's life (ie: not removing her from her friends when that becomes important because mommy and daddy want to enjoy living in a different location).

[Jake]

There's always that 'grass is greener' syndrome with getting out of NoVA. (are we opening that can of worms again...?)

When I traveled for work I was all over the country doing work on client sites. I saw a lot of different places in the US and most of the time it had me appreciate certain things I took for granted. Proximity to DC (a really neat city, IMO), 4 seasons for weather, and proximity to family. I think the worst thing about the nova area is the traffic, but I've been in bad, of not worse, traffic in LA, Chicago, NYC, Boston, and Dallas/Fort Worth. I still wonder what it would be like to live in a place that gets more snow since I love the white stuff, but I just travel and vacation in places I want to be kind of fix that itch. My priorities are changing now with the kiddo growing up, but I'm happy with where i am for now.

+1. I want to get out because I grew up here and am familiar with a lot of the area, but at the same time, a lot of people "itching to get out" are those who grew up in fairly undesirable areas given our interests and/or careers. So... not in as big a rush as I once was.

[Sijray21]

Was money tighter than you expected when you started budgeting for yourself, buying furniture for apartments, going out to eat with colleagues, etc? Do you wish you had refrained from spending on anything, or maybe wished you had spent more on bars for networking or furniture for your empty apartment? Did you ask for your first raise to accommodate your lifestyle, or was it given to you over time?

i don't think this was much addressed, but furniture was some of the last on my priority list a few years out of college. Good furniture is expensive and as long as we could sit on stuff, eat on stuff, and didn't have bed bugs or some shit who cares. That changes after you have a more permanent place and don't move often. We bought nice furniture a few months after moving in to our house that we bought. After graduating I moved almost every year for 7 years because of rent prices, roommates going different directions, or something else. The only pieces of furniture i had were futons and bed frames that disassembled so i could move them easily.


As for raises, some of the biggest bumps come from switching companies. Ask for more when you change jobs. That being said i have good management at my current job and I found a way to save my client millions of dollars by not obtaining certain software since i figured out how to get them a solution they were looking for without getting more software and hiring a team of people. That created more slots here, added 4-5 guys, and i got a nice raise the following evaluation period that was initiated by my direct managers.

[Apoc]

We talked a little about this on the groupme.  Everyone is different so it's tough to say.

#1 While college was fun, the real world is far more fun.  It's harder, it's terrifying; and sometime it just sucks; but the freedom it entails is worth it.

If you are *thinking* about moving somewhere after college, DO IT.  Don't wait!  It's easy to get stuck someplace because the next "promotion" is around the corner or the guy you just networked with is offering you your next sweet gig...in the area.  You will never have the time to just check out other areas then your early 20s.  And it really doesn't stunt your career unless you have specific objectives.  I didn't even think of moving anywhere else so I don't regret not doing that.  IF it's on your mind and you don't do it; you'll regret it.

Plenty of "free" time to choose what you want to do.  Choose to hammer down and do 60 hour work weeks and every night out networking/barhopping? Sure, if that's your thing.  Work 8 hours then smoke a joint and play video games all night? Sure.  You'll have the choice to do whatever you want, you are your own guide.

Money?  The realization bills are expensive, retirement planning is expensive, just living is expensive.  I never was paycheck to paycheck and never felt super tight since I lived at home socking away money for a house, but certainly the idea of a $30k car was completely out of my realm the first few years out of college.  While I didn't max out my 401k the first couple years (If you can afford to put away $18.5k post tax on a $40-$60k gross job you are better than I am); make sure you are at least socking away a good portion of it.

FYI I did 2-3 HPDEs a year until 2 years out of college.  I didn't just up and go racing the day I got a job.  Hell I didn't go racing until almost 3 years after graduating in a M3 with bilsteins, a plywood splitter, and a OMG I just blew my budget $1k wing.  I maybe had $14k into the car by then with a $16k Yukon and $1500 trailer...... 3 years after graduating.

100% this.

There's always that 'grass is greener' syndrome with getting out of NoVA. (are we opening that can of worms again...?)

No, there isn't. Everyone who's left doesn't regret it and the only people saying there is are the people who are still there. I honestly think it's impossible to evaluate the place until you've lived somewhere else for a year or two.

[Senor_Taylor]

I'm sure my life story is public knowledge since I tend to word vomit whenever I get the chance, but I'll share my experience now almost 2 years out of school.

I paid all of my bills in college and worked nearly full time throughout and graduated with 2 paid off cars (Tacoma and Miata), and about $500 in my savings account. I had insurance, property taxes, phone bill, etc. The normal stuff, and I also had about 25k in Student Loans since I was fortunate enough to have a poor-ish family so most of my school was paid for and my loans were just to pay rent 9 months out of the year.

I do remember crying in Chandler my spring semester senior year when I realized I didn't have enough money to move up to Nova to start my job. You all may remember me panicking and trying to sell the Miata so I could afford the move. I was supposed to start my real job on June 5th so I needed to move up to Nova right after graduation, and the only place I could find that seemed suitable was in Sterling. I'm not from the area so the only chance I got to see what was around and learn the area from when I visited Joey and Jake a couple times because I couldn't afford to take off of work to drive up. Joey actually offered to let me live in his basement or loan me some money until I could get my feet under me. I ended up selling enough stuff and borrowing literally every dollar from my mom's savings to fund my move up to Nova (which I've paid back). I couldn't find a roommate on such short notice so I ended up paying the first months rent of $1850, the security deposit, and admin fees for the apartment by myself in person at the apartment building the day after graduation. Zach ended up moving in with me and we split it from then on. We eventually moved to a better apartment at $1500 a month, then we moved into a new townhouse that Me, Zach, and Tyler split $3000 a month on, but it's pretty sweet and has unlimited parking and a big garage.

Things were tight and have continued to be tight. My starting salary was 66k with a 5k bonus, but between some emergencies, taxes, student loans, and other expenses, I haven't managed to save much as my free cash after bills was only about $300-500 a month. My Tacoma was not cutting it after 5 years of ownership and getting 16 mpg every day sucked, so I sold it and the Miata and bought my 4Runner, which blew up in my face and I ended up losing almost $8000 on it. The E30 was the same tune. Those failed because I tried to do too much too soon and do the "truck, trailer, race car" thing right out of college, which isn't possible unless you're very lucky.

I've been doing a better job with things and I'm almost at a point where I have an extra month's rent saved up. Mainly not buying shit cars and trying to make them work was the best decision. You end up spending a lot more money when you realize that the college struggle isn't sustainable and you can't eat expired beans for every meal like I did.

---

Adding some more here.

I have a lot more free time now, but things really got stressful. My job is the most stressful thing I've ever had. I've had a lot dropped on my plate early on and work long hours and it's been a tough time. That combined with living paycheck to paycheck and not having any safety net (Can't move back home) really got to me and the panic attacks I started having during planning the car show my senior year came back and got worse. Eventually was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and didn't really get it under control until the summer of 2018. A combination of leaving group chats, cutting bad people from my life, purging my social media and paying attention to it less, taking better care of myself, and a Zoloft prescription helped, but it never really goes away. I do find myself starting to get anxious sitting in Nova Traffic a lot still. Life is easier now than when it was in college for sure, but the stakes are a lot higher now than they used to be, which is kind of the trade off. I've learned that taking care of myself is more important than trying to chase those dreams I may have had. Patience is key and living a healthy and stable life is better than constantly trying to get that next cool thing.

I know I'm rambling, but my main advice is to take care of yourself, be patient, and don't compare yourself to anyone around you. We all grow at our own pace and you can't try to have it all right out of college. Another thing that I'm working on now is coming to terms with knowing I probably won't be rich and how I need to get used to sacrificing some things.

[ScottyB]

After three years at JMU, it's finally starting to sink in that I won't be here too much longer.

first of all, congrats.  you're gonna love being out there making your own way.  

i graduated in 2005 and immediately married my wife (we'd been dating for 5 years).  no ragrets but it took me down a much different path than most of you since we decided to locate ourselves based on her grad school prospects and continued pursuit of a PhD instead of my job or where our families were based in Roanoke.  because of that, instead of my plan of going to the DC job market, like all of my friends, i ended up in Atlanta, with no connections and a full day's drive from my family safety net.  scary but it forced me to face the realities of getting my life together.

i was fortunate to start out with no debt and each of us had our car from college.  we had each had a credit card for about a year prior but not much activity on them so our credit history was weak and i needed my dad to cosign our first apartment.  our furniture was basically whatever few things we had from our apartments in college, and a couple beat up ancient hand-me-downs that our parents were happy to offload to us so they could upgrade their own places.

first year out was real lean.  i had grand delusions of my lifestyle (oh boy! i'm making REAL money now!) but my pay along with my wife's stipend was just enough to live with stuff like cable TV and have insurance but the idea of eating out or concerts or vacations was a luxury and anything car related was just to keep it running. after the first year, it got better, i landed a nice job starting at 36k with good bennies and while staying at that same company, within 4 years had almost doubled that through annual raises by consistently making myself an indispensable asset - always finding ways to be able to do stuff other people couldn't, delivering ahead of schedule, taking up opportunities to do company-paid courses in the evenings, making friends (not ass-kissing, just getting to know people) in every department i could. in 2008, when the market crashed and the industry my company was in tanked overnight, i watched a lot of buddies leave their offices with their stuff in a cardboard box, and i think i got to stay because of those reasons i mentioned.

5 years later we left Atlanta for Raleigh and i went freelance when my wife took on her postdoctorate at UNC. that was a hit to our income but we had saved up enough to weather it and then the business got a foothold. another 4 years later, had a kid, and now we're back in GA (Augusta) where we finally bought a house. she has a teaching job and i'm still doing my thing. i'm on my third car, did an HPDE, bunch of autocross and rallycross, and acquired a pile of tools and a garage to go with it. life's pretty rad. long term, hoping to move back close to VA though.

stuff i learned
• i didn't know shit about finance in high school, or most of my way through college. i was ignorant and just decided i'd figure it out later. that was dumb. you guys are so lucky nowadays to have such vast internet resources for that but as others have mentioned, get a credit card and use it wisely to establish a credit history and acquire reward points. invest heavily in your 401k and track your expenses if for no other reason than to budget the best way to blow your money on fun things. do your best to pay off the credit card(s) every month...debt is a bitch.

• have savings, have an emergency fund. life's unpredictable and you WILL need to dip into that at sometime or another.

• i had a reliable and kinda fun honda accord in college that i basically traded+cash back to my dad for his audi A4 1.8T which was cooler and faster when i graduated. totally blinded by the turbo noises and fancy german mystique to realize the long game - which is that it became a disaster in repairs like most early audis. by the end i had dumped something like $8k into a $3k car along with some stupid mods. took me a long time to dig out of that hole. have something reliable for a while, don't mod it too much, get a second car for the track. i should have kept the accord, sold it for a nice chunk, and gotten something better and cooler than the 2.5RS.

• don't be afraid to co-drive with someone if you need that speed fix but are wary of using your own car. it can be a lot of fun to show up and drive someone's car while putting less wear or risk on your own stuff. also a good way to make friends.

• i'm VERY glad i lived in a metro area when i was young. it gave me a chance to see what i liked and didn't like about that lifestyle, and i was able to experience and enjoy the city offerings much more in my 20's while being able to tolerate the pace and congestion. by the time we moved i was fed up with it all. i'm glad i got the perspective.

• move and explore when you're fresh out and there isn't anything keeping you tied to one area. there is such a huge vast array of things to see in this country. i wish i had the chance to experience more of the US instead of being so locked into the southeast, but i'm fixing that over the next few years with some family travel vacations. the longer you wait, the harder it gets.

• i feel like i really didn't hit my career stride until i was in my late 20's early 30's. don't burn yourself out too hard trying to climb the ladder early on. that's not to say don't work hard - but if you're being asked to work overtime be sure you're getting properly compensated for it. don't let your boss push you around outside reasonable bounds of your job expectations. i've experienced what happens to your body if you push too hard for too long and the stress is not fun.

• once you have a couple years experience under your belt and can use that to your benefit, don't be afraid to negotiate a little with employers. be that travel, hours, pay, bennies, etc. i should have asked for better vacation when i interviewed for my second job but i was just so happy to be hired i kind of glossed over it.

• enjoy being young. if you're athletic, or want to be, do those crazy physical things now. you can take the hits, and will likely never be as strong and fast as you are right now, later. try to stay active around your work schedule, if for no other reason than your long term health.

• don't rush to fill your place with the biggest flatscreen or nice furniture until you've been out a few years. nobody will care if you're watching netflix on a craigslist couch.

• it'll be tempting to Keep Up With The Joneses. your coworkers will get baller cars, ring up big tabs, have the latest and greatest whatever. stay in your comfort zone, whatever that may be. truth is, many of them are living that way in crippling debt, or getting outside help that might be unrealistic for anyone else.

[Jake]

don't burn yourself out too hard trying to climb the ladder early on.  that's not to say don't work hard - but if you're being asked to work overtime be sure you're getting properly compensated for it.  don't let your boss push you around outside reasonable bounds of your job expectations.  i've experienced what happens to your body if you push too hard for too long and the stress is not fun.

I'm a huge fan of work/life balance and have always been adamant that I am working to live, not living to work. Some do not share that mindset and that's okay. It's good to realize that people have different motivations - I do not aspire to be the one leading the company, working 60+ hour weeks, making an assload of money. My quality of life and ability to get out and do fun stuff matter a lot more.

Anything beyond about 45 hours a week (consistently, some weeks can go long for legit reasons) is a job I'm not interested in. AOL and CEB were both pretty good in that regard, and Slalom has been a guaranteed 40-no-more-no-less atmosphere, since we only write our SOWs (statements of work) with our clients at a billing rate of 40 hours per week.

Going along with what I just said - remember that your compensation involves SO MUCH more than just your salary. Things to consider when talking compensation include bonuses (annual? quarterly? how much?), healthcare options, PTO (paid time off) and company holidays. Ask what the typical hours are for the position you are considering - not so much a "how many per week" but more of a "so what's the typical day like for [role] here?". That should give you a decent expectation of when to show up and how late people stay. Ask to see the list of company holidays and learn how much PTO you earn. Many jobs will start you off with X days of PTO, and you earn more the longer you stay. I had a lot of PTO at CEB but was miserable when I left - 30+ days of time off don't matter when you dread the days you have to go in. I get 18 at Slalom but have much more flexibility in how I bill my time. Remember you are interviewing THEM as much as they are interviewing you. 

And going along with ^ that, you will probably not get to negotiate any of that when you get your first job or two. But regardless, if you are considering a few opportunities, it is absolutely worth asking just so you know everything beyond salary.

[Apoc]

I'm in my 40s and firmly believe that every phase of your life is the best and worst phase at the same time - all for different reasons.

[WRXtranceformed]

Another thing that I'm working on now is coming to terms with knowing I probably won't be rich and how I need to get used to sacrificing some things.

Protip:  You should not speak that into existence unless that's what you want.  Financial success starts with the belief that success is possible.

[Eco_Boi_Stephen]

Good thread Brandi xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Ryan T]

Graduated in December 2007 with just under $40k in student loan debt. Unfortunately the portion of my fathers pension that my mother drew was just enough to keep me from getting financial aide but also small enough that she couldn’t pay to put me and my twin brother through college at the same time. All of our assets growing up were mostly tied up in farm and land so I didn’t have much help financially. Of course my mom would help me out when I needed it; fix a car, bought me a jeep, etc, but all school expenses were on me.

After graduation got a job at a car dealership in Harrisonburg. Barely made enough to cover my expenses but managed to sock some money away parting out stuff during the cash-for-clunkers campaign. Worked there for about a year and a half, then got a job with a local agency back home in November of 2009. Moved back and lived with my mom making a whopping 28k/year. Met a girl (who is now my wife) who was fresh out of college making in the 30s at an entry level accounting position at a coal company and we rented a condo together in summer 2010. October of 2010 I got on with the state making mid-high 30s and my wife was advancing at about the same rate. My cars were paid for and she was making payments on her car. We didn’t really have much money to spend on extras and I think, besides rent, car payment and student loans, the only other thing we had to pay off was some furniture. We lived pretty meager for a few years.

I knew at that time I wasn’t smart enough to make a lot of money investing or really had the funds to do much more than to match my 401k and sock a little extra away on my own, but I was pretty good with my hands and figured I could buy a house that needed some work and could make my money back in the end. My wife got a $50k buyout bonus when the company she was working for got absorbed by a bigger coal company and we used what was left of that after taxes to pay off her car and some credit card debt she had from before we met, threw a bund in savings and used some to help us buy a house. Bought a all original 1976 home and completed gutted and remodeled it ourselves.

From 2010 to 2014 we pretty much lived the above. Paid our bills, had one car payment, did the lower middle class lifestyle for a while. Managed to sock away a pretty good chunk in savings, but we didn’t do a lot of extra stuff. April of 2014 I got hired on at the feds making over double what I made at the state, but I had a 120 mile daily commute. Bought a cheap Hyundai to drive back and forth, but that meant a second car payment. We managed fine though. January of 2016 Samantha got on at Deloitte making about the same money I was and from then on we’ve been doing really good. May of 2016 I got the opportunity to transfer to the office in my home town and I jumped on it. My 120 mile daily commute went down to 20 miles a day. Bought my truck and Sam a new car because her Lexus was being an asshole but we’re back to 2 car payments.

April of 2018 we sold our house in Bristol and realized some really good gains from the remodel and the housing market rebounding, and bought a house we want to stay in about 3 miles from my office. At this point (i’m 34 and she’s 33) were really at that point where we can throw a little bit of money around. We aren’t rich by any stretch, but we certainly aren’t living paycheck to paycheck or watching our pennies like we were in our mid 20s.

Lessons I’ve learned, don’t be afraid of a little controlled debt. I never carry a balance on a credit card, but if you need new furniture or something, 0% interest deals are everywhere. Besides cars and house, I’ve never financed anything that had an interest rate. Enjoy your life, even if you’re not making a fortune. We did a few things in our first few years out of school that was at the top end of what we could afford/close to being more than we could afford, but we worked hard and found a way to do it, and it was worth it. Looking back now I find myself going “how did we afford this or that” when we were making less than half what we make now, but you find a way and you get by. Do the math, don’t be scared, do what makes you happy and live the life you want to live.