Trail is getting warmer...Mid-Engined Corvette

[G.Irish]

I saw a few blurbs pop up that were based off this Detroit News article, but I just now read the source article and there's some interesting tidbits.

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Some salient points:

The C8 is expected to be equipped with performance innovations like an active-aerodynamic system to enhance downforce, according to Car & Driver’s Don Sherman, who has been following the car’s development since 2014. The magazine says the next-generation Corvette will be powered by the tried-and-true small-block pushrod V-8 to keep costs down.

When Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen was asked by Motor Trend last fall if a Cadillac “halo” car based on a mid-engine Corvette might be in the cards, he replied: “It has to be one of the options that we consider. In the future there are going to be some architectures inside the corporation that will remain purely Cadillac, but then there are others where it just isn’t economically feasible to enter segments by trying to do a unique Cadillac. Then you look at what’s available in terms of corporate assets. And I’m sure you’d agree that a new, very advanced Corvette platform wouldn’t be a bad place to start.”

I was just thinking recently about the Corvette and how does an automaker go about changing the image of a car with a long history and a very established clientele base. I feel like Chevrolet has done a great job of shifting perceptions of the Corvette starting with the C5 Z06, and with a mid-engined version it could be another huge step forward in perception.

It might price some of the customer base out, but in a way that'll be a good thing. It would give the Camaro and its high-performance variants more room to breath, rather than having to compete directly with the Vette.

[rherold9]

Obviously price is going to go up. The question is should chevrolet alienate their customers? I doubt someone who wants to purchase a vette will want to settle on a Camaro. It does seem like with the new z28 will be as fast as the z06 so it would make sense. They'll have the Camaro solely compete with the Mustang and the new corvette compete with the ford gt and other higher priced exotics. Maybe they would offer the mid engine as a higher trim up and test the waters before doing it 100% all in every trim? They'll really need to find a good balance where they won't completely destroy their business line of customers and not sell enough to make them not break even to sales in camaros and corvettes are right now....

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[JPolen01]

It's that time of the year again for the mid engine corvette rumors eh?

[WRXtranceformed]

Is that what Chevy's financial part of the plan to go mid engine was about, to go after the exotic buyer market? Don't get me wrong I have always been a big Corvette fan (cross shopped the Z06 at one point if you remember) but there's a very specific buyer for an exotic and then there are people that buy Corvettes. If that is the case I don't see why you would go after that crowd that wouldn't buy a Corvette because Chevy, not because mid-engine.

Or let me put it another way, I was in a Chevy dealer a while back while my friend was looking at Silveraydos. They had a few Z06s in the showroom and they were sick. Expensive carbon fiber packages, integrated cameras all over to record your hooning. A few of them priced out over $110k. I just could not shake this feeling from my head that if I am spending a hundred and ten thousand dollars on a car there is not a single domestic make that is going to make that short list...even this car sitting here as cool as it is. If Chevy makes that price point even higher and shoots for the top dogs I have a feeling that's a recipe for fail cake

[jbails39]

The big draw of American muscle has been the low(ish) cost hoonage supplied by a V8 to the rear wheels. I don't see the same jackwagons who would buy a Ferrari or high-end 911 plunking down similar money on a brand that fetches no exclusivity to the owner.

[rherold9]

On the other hand. Look at what Ford has done. Brought back the GT and made it an exotic. Why would Chevy not do this with their Vette? Would make sense they want to compete with Ford and beat them. All Chevy has to do is only produce so few to make it special and people would probably buy them.

At the same time I agree it's going to be hard to break the stigma of Chevy not ben an exotic and it's just the muscle car. But, people even in Europe understand the corvette is one of the very few sports cars that can keep up with them elegant european rides. So they have broken the stigma of traditional muscle car. Can they break the stigma of not being a higher priced "exotic" car? Probably not.

[jbails39]

On the other hand. Look at what Ford has done. Brought back the GT and made it an exotic. Why would Chevy not do this with their Vette? Would make sense they want to compete with Ford and beat them. All Chevy has to do is only produce so few to make it special and people would probably buy them.

The more comparable example would be the Mustang GT to the Corvette, and even then it still isn't a good comparison, because the Corvette exists in a price point way above the Mustang, but below the Ford GT. It is a unique situation, but I think the good answer may be similar to that, wherein Chevrolet produces a mid-engine Corvette in addition to the front-engine model to capture the exclusivity. Maybe thrown on some random number and letters like C8FTD-RSTI- R-Spec Cabriolet Especiale.

[rherold9]

Wut. The mustang = Camaro. Not mustang = corvette.... a vette can keep up with a lot of European sports cars. A vette just does it in a very different way.

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[G.Irish]

Maybe they would offer the mid engine as a higher trim up and test the waters before doing it 100% all in every trim? They'll really need to find a good balance where they won't completely destroy their business line of customers and not sell enough to make them not break even to sales in camaros and corvettes are right now....

From the article they said the C7 will continue to be sold alongside until 2021. So maybe they're giving themselves a buffer to decide whether or not to continue making a less expensive front-engined Corvette.

Still, I'd imagine the margins would be bigger on a more expensive car, so they wouldn't need to sell 30k a year to make it work.

Don't get me wrong I have always been a big Corvette fan (cross shopped the Z06 at one point if you remember) but there's a very specific buyer for an exotic and then there are people that buy Corvettes.

That is the million dollar question. If you make a MR Vette for maybe $80-130k, would people who would normally buy a 911, Aston Martin, used Ferrari, or AMG GT S switch over? I think some would, but how many?

And as we talked about the other night, how happy is that 911 guy gonna be with the customer experience in the typical Chevy dealership?

The big draw of American muscle has been the low(ish) cost hoonage supplied by a V8 to the rear wheels. I don't see the same jackwagons who would buy a Ferrari or high-end 911 plunking down similar money on a brand that fetches no exclusivity to the owner.

I think the MR Vette would still have to be significantly cheaper than a 911 Turbo (about $150K) to succeed. Maybe the C8 Z06 could cost around $150k, but at that price it'd have to have over 700 hp and be able to take down everything including the 911 GT3RS (GT2RS if they make it), 675LT, upcoming 488 Speciale, etc.

Chevy is never going to have the brand cachet of Porsche, Ferrari, or Lamborghini. Exclusivity-wise, I think all of the supercars are becoming significantly less exclusive now. Ferrari is upping production, Porsche is making a lot more GT3's and GT3RS's than in the past, and McLaren is trying to move a lot more units per year. In that environment, I think waitlists and huge dealer markups are gonna become a lot less common.

[jbails39]

Wut. The mustang = Camaro. Not mustang = corvette.... a vette can keep up with a lot of European sports cars. A vette just does it in a very different way.

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Which is why I said it was a very poor comparison, but I will digress and say GT350. It really doesn't have a good domestic comparison.

[WRXtranceformed]

On the other hand. Look at what Ford has done. Brought back the GT and made it an exotic. Why would Chevy not do this with their Vette? Would make sense they want to compete with Ford and beat them. All Chevy has to do is only produce so few to make it special and people would probably buy them.

At the same time I agree it's going to be hard to break the stigma of Chevy not ben an exotic and it's just the muscle car. But, people even in Europe understand the corvette is one of the very few sports cars that can keep up with them elegant european rides. So they have broken the stigma of traditional muscle car. Can they break the stigma of not being a higher priced "exotic" car? Probably not.

You can make a car special, make it a low production number car, only offer it to prospective buyers as part of an "application process", and then only sell it to DJs and Youtube "celebrities" but you're not going to build a successful business model solely off of that. It would not be surprising if Ford is losing money on each GT sold, but like the Lexus LFA or the Veyron that isn't the point. These automakers make these halo cars because they can, they provide a lot of marketing buzz and presence and are a way to display engineering prowess, or motorsports/racing heritage, or whatever keeps people coming into dealerships to buy F150s and Mustangs.

Chevy is making money on selling Corvettes to their current clientele, they probably won't if they make a limited group of them to compete with the established supercar brands and their current offerings.

[Senor_Taylor]

I highly doubt the GT is making money at all for Ford directly, but it is great for the goodwill of Ford. The Ford GT isn't comparable to the Vette in any way, imo. The GT was a LeMans legend that wasn't made for what, like 30-40 years? I can only see a MR Vette hurting sales at first even if the price point is good, unless they can find a way to not significantly affect the look and shape of the car.

[CaptainHenreh]

The GT was a LeMans legend that wasn't made for what, like 30-40 years?

Uh, 10?


Lee is spot-on, though. It's a halo car, and I give zero fucks about any "civilian" one they "sell".

They're selling Trucks with the Ford GT, not Ford GT's.

[Senor_Taylor]

I'm talking about the first GT, excluding the GT60.

You know the one made in 2006 designed to look like the one from the 60s? That 40 year gap.

I think somewhere between 1969 and 2006 there was about 40 years. I think if you look hard enough, you can see about 4 decades between the mid 2000's and the late 60's. Then again, I haven't graduated yet, maybe time moves differently for alums.

GT 60

[.RJ]

It's that time of the year again for the mid engine corvette rumors eh?

[CaptainHenreh]

Then again, I haven't graduated yet, maybe time moves differently for alums.

Well hopefully you learn to communicate (or at least generate) a goddam coherent sentence before you graduate.

[rherold9]

Then again, I haven't graduated yet, maybe time moves differently for alums.

Well hopefully you learn to communicate (or at least generate) a goddam coherent sentence before you graduate.

[rherold9]

So looks like the trail isn't getting warmer for a mid-engine car. It's going to be a front engine supercharged higher revving DOHC LT5 engine in a C7 body with upgraded aero. Probably have better brakes or at least ones just as good as the old ZR1 and probably some other things like a better track oriented suspension with their magnetic ride control, etc... My guess is 740-750 hp out of that LT5 but we shall see.

Winter testing aka almost ready for production spy shots.

[G.Irish]

I didn't expect the C8 to come this early so the impending arrival of the C7 ZR1 really doesn't diminish the chances of the MR C8. I thought we'd see the ZR-1 (and/or Mustang GT500) at Detroit but no dice. NY auto show is in March but it would seem like an odd venue for Ford and Chevy to debut their heavy hitters.

The ZR1 should be bonkers, I imagine it will be the faster around a racetrack than everything else on the market save for maybe the McLaren P14, which will probably get unveiled at Geneva. Porsche might drop the GT2RS there too but I would bet on the ZR1 in that matchup.

[rherold9]

We shall see. Seems like Chevrolet and Ford are stepping up their game with their muscle cars so you never know

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