From the Land of Fruits and Nuts....

[WRXtranceformed]

3 billion wtf !!!!!!

Dude, float me a bit of that. I'm doing my part for the environment, I'm a VEGETARIAN MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!

hahaha

[Evan]

nevermind the fact that human induced global warming is not proven, and many scientists say its a hoax....

OT:
Hey Evan,

Whether global warming is human "induced" or not, global warming is a fact. Screw mother earth but human society will be adversely affected by this so why not reduce our contribution to global warming?

It sure is a fact, but you are buying into the hype as to how bad it is, and how significant our contribution is. Which much of the data points to "not very"
The fact is that the earth goes through cooling and warming cycles in several layers, from 40 to 400+ years. This is not "global warming" in the fear mongering context that the media and al gore paint it.

There was a cooling cycle from 1940 to 1970. Just like today all the scientists then justifying their grant money by proclaiming the world is coming to an end, except this time it was an ice age. Ive got a great direct quote from a scientist who in the mid 60s said that we were on our way to plunging ourselves into an ice age and any scientist who disagrees is being irresponsible. Almost verbatim what the scientists who believe in global warming (which btw is NOT nearly unanimous as mr gore would have you believe) are saying now

here is a great read by Dr. Fred Singer, former director of the National Weather Satellite Center and "renowned atmospheric scientist"
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[CaptainHenreh]

No worries about Global Warming. Richard Branson has it covered.



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Damn. If I could be anybody...

[WRXtranceformed]

I love how if you're a multi-billionaire like that, you don't have to look all professional in public. Dude rocks the no tie, wrinkled shirt at an event with a FORMER PRESIDENT and a plain black blazer.

Baller status right thurr!!

[BLINGMW]

Ive got a great direct quote from a scientist who in the mid 60s said that we were on our way to plunging ourselves into an ice age and any scientist who disagrees is being irresponsible.

hmmm... I think he might have been on to something! It WAS a little cool yesterday and today...

OMG!!!!! hock: hock: hock:

[Evan]

And to clear something up, I am very pro-environment, and I think there are many things we should be doing to help clean it up.

But I am also very anti- misinformation and public manipulation using lies.
Do you think its a mere coincidence that all of the global warming issues are being brought to the forefront right when the percieved eco-friendly democrats are making a big push in the elections to take over congress? and when al gore is trying to throw his hat into the pres election ring yet again?
dont be so naive.

90% of vehicle emissions are made by 10% of the cars.
If every commuter in the country drove hybrids to work it wouldnt make a huge dent in the air quality.
Big rigs are the highest polluters by far, but have been protected by emissions laws by big $$ and lobbyists. Its time to crank down and make those big Ds not belch black smoke into the air, and even as a car enthusiast I think all vehicles including antiques and old cars should go through emissions if they want to travel on public roads.

oh, and airline travel is the highest emitting way to travel by far. I wonder how Al Gore travels to his global warming rallies all over the country.....

[.RJ]

to crank down and make those big Ds not belch black smoke into the air, and even as a car enthusiast I think all vehicles including antiques and old cars should go through emissions if they want to travel on public roads.

While not a public road, you dont have a cat on your racecar - and probably put more miles a year on it than most guys with antiques - do you think racecars should have functioning cats?

[Evan]

to crank down and make those big Ds not belch black smoke into the air, and even as a car enthusiast I think all vehicles including antiques and old cars should go through emissions if they want to travel on public roads.

While not a public road, you dont have a cat on your racecar - and probably put more miles a year on it than most guys with antiques - do you think racecars should have functioning cats?

well you're pretty much missing the point.

maybe i put more miles on my racecar than a guy with a model T, but there are shit tons of muscle cars out there being driven every day.
Any vehicle that doesnt have tags on it isnt going to be driven much.

driving on a public road is a priveledge, something that can be qualified, just like saftey and emissions inspections. the fact that old cars get off of this is bullshit IMO.
owning a vehicle and operating it on private property is a personal freedom
and I wouldnt have any problem running a cat on my racecar if class rules required it.
and i think leaded gas should be outlawed

[.RJ]

well you're pretty much missing the point.

I'm not missing anything, just expanding the topic of discussion.

I know the spec rx7 guys need to run cats, and of course, it just became one more thing to research to no end and spend too much money on. I'm not sure if they still have to use them.

[Andy]

Evan, that's really kind of conspiratorial, master plan type crazy talk.
I think you would scoff at some leftwinger that argues that Cheney wanted war so his former company could make money. So why believe that rightwinger nonsense?

Global warming is happening and it's coming up because the strong majority of scientists say that we are approaching the tipping point before things are out of our hands.

Regulations should go further than car emissions and I'm not arguing that hybids are the answer. I'm just saying that we should take steps to reduce greenhouse gases, but specifically regarding cars, we should have cars with greater MPG's period.

[.RJ]

Global warming is happening and it's coming up because the strong majority of scientists say that we are approaching the tipping point before things are out of our hands.

What about the mini ice-age a few hundred years ago, followed by a long warming period (that we are still in). This "warming" has been going on long before the industrial revolution, and will likely cycle back the other way.

[Evan]

Evan, that's really kind of conspiratorial, master plan type crazy talk.
I think you would scoff at some leftwinger that argues that Cheney wanted war so his former company could make money. So why believe that rightwinger nonsense?

Global warming is happening and it's coming up because the strong majority of scientists say that we are approaching the tipping point before things are out of our hands.

conspiracy theory? fine, Im done. Instead of addressing my factual points and documented sources you try to slap a label on it and throw out names. Typical. Just like the muslim thread. meanwhile you spit out shit without source or citation. (and not like this is a hard topic to find supporting arguments for yourself)

The affects of global warming are a debate not a fact or conclusion.
did you even read the link I posted? or do you know more than the former director of the National Weather Satellite Center. And there is plenty more out there on both sides of the fence if you actually have any interest in being and formed, unless you wish to be an uninformed ignorant and tow the pop culture line

[G.Irish]

The affects of global warming are a debate not a fact or conclusion. did you even read the link I posted? or do you know more than the former director of the National Weather Satellite Center

Yeah its definitely not a cut and dried issue because again our understanding of climatology is not advanced enough yet. But therein lies the danger. Should we continue on our same course because we don't have a full understanding of how things work?

The fact cannot be disputed that we are releasing CO2 into the atmosphere at a much higher rate than would be naturally (barring massive worldwide volcanic eruptions). It is also widely accepted that C02 acts as a greenhouse gas. What is not understood is what other factors affect climate and how exactly to all factors combine to give you climate values over large geographic areas.

Either way the stakes are very high and we can ill afford to ignore the problem or assume that our activities aren't be causing or accelerating global warming.

[Goodspeed]

Instead of addressing my factual points and documented sources you try to slap a label on it and throw out names. Typical. Just like the muslim thread.

:lol: come on man, that was fair and square. People on both sides of the argument shouldn't believe everything they read. The media is full of wildly innacurate statistics, generalizations and sampling errors.

I think a lot of it simply has to do with the nature of the state of California...its a massive economic center that eclipses many small countries...the smog and other pollution that happens is largely unavoidable (for the time being). Actually it was recently discovered that air quality in N. Cali is being affected by air pollution coming from China, I'm sure that that is also a major factor in all this.

[G.Irish]

Instead of addressing my factual points and documented sources you try to slap a label on it and throw out names. Typical. Just like the muslim thread.

:lol: come on man, that was fair and square. People on both sides of the argument shouldn't believe everything they read. The media is full of wildly innacurate statistics, generalizations and sampling errors.

I think a lot of it simply has to do with the nature of the state of California...its a massive economic center that eclipses many small countries...the smog and other pollution that happens is largely unavoidable (for the time being). Actually it was recently discovered that air quality in N. Cali is being affected by air pollution coming from China, I'm sure that that is also a major factor in all this.

Actually I think the major factor in all this is that elections are coming up for California Attorney General.

[mpg9999]

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[Andy]

Wow. Evan, I think you may be getting a little worked up. I'm at work so I don't have the time to cite my sources but my wife is a geologist so I hear a bunch and am pretty familiar with regard to warming/cooling trends. Our company is also studying increased coastal flooding in the Gulf Coast and as part of the job, I actually read a good deal of studies on flooding/climatology. Though I agree that the "effects" of global warming to human civilization is up for debate, the earth is warming, sea levels are rising and there are real consequences.

On a more personal note: Evan, you dish it out pretty harshly in innumerable threads so criticism of your points should be accepted without cries of slander. I'm not taking this discussion personally at all, nor should you.

Lastly, I was commenting on the relationship you see with regard to the press pushing this "global warming" story line for the sake of electing Democrats and helping AL Gore run in '08. Talk about baseless conjecture. There wasn't any data points in that argument.

[G.Irish]

That articles argument is rather Swiss cheesy. He's saying CO2 is only responsible for 2 percent of the greenhouse effect and indeed that sounds like a small number. But without the greenhouse effect average temperatures would be way below zero on Earth all the time.

The whole thing with the climate is that there are a lot of mechanisms that affect it beyond just the raw percentages of atmospheric gases. Solar radiation, cloud cover, reflectivity of the Earth's surface (particularly at the poles), and ocean temperature all play a part and I probably missed a few. Climatologists think there are feedback cycles involved which is why everyone is so concerned with just a few degrees of change.

[ViPER1313]

The whole earth heats / cools on a natural basis thing is true, but the past 100 years have been the hottest in the past 100k (scientists can use ice core data from the poles to get a pretty accurate picture on the temperatures of the earth ranging back several hundred thousand years.) The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has doubled in the past 50 or so. Not many people actually debate that the CO2 in the atmosphere is responsible for the increase in global temperatures over the past 100 years. What people do debate is how 2x or 3x the amount of CO2 present in the atmosphere today will affect global climates 100 years down the road.

[hondub]

I guess i read this a little late so im referring back to the whole lawsuit thing. California says that they spend so much money to clean up car related pollution right. Well why is the state filing a lawsuit against these car companies for that even though these companies have to spend tons of money every year to keep their automobiles within California's emissions specifications. Not to mention, California's policies are what started the car emissions movement back in the 70's. And another thing is that Californian citizens choose to drive, its not required by law to drive a car so why is the car to blame for polluting. If the car isnt started by someone, nothing comes out the exhaust pipe.