Civic of Doom: Honda Challenge Recycling

[D_Eclipse9916]

there are 2-3 (2 rookies and a second year driver) of us knocking on the door of the mid pack. I have the least seat time of all of us in our cars... so I know that will help. I also know learning "race craft" will help.

Can I also request that you guys stop this "only my XX event".  It's hurting your own mentality about getting it done.  I too have fallen into that trap, but it seems to be this whole thing on the internet where EVERYONE is on "only my XX" event with XX.  

If you are learning great, dont need to caveat it; set your goals high.

[Senor_Taylor]

I'm just not too trilled going down the "set of tires every 3 weekends" route ... I'm so cheap

You've been patient so far. Why not just focus on more seat time and practicing with traffic and try some stickers next year? If you got 225, you know you'll have me to buy them off of you

[Jake]

I am also firmly in the "you can't expect much if you're running old-ass tires with unknown HCs" camp. You're racing now and if you want to be faster, you need to have the right equipment. I think you should listen to Spencer for setup advice and also buck up and buy a set of brand new tires.

I've got two sets of "dry" wheels - the gray set has new tires (now with oh, 6 HCs) and the silver set has old tires (25 HCs? Ish?). I can use the old set a bit longer if I just want to turn laps and be a few seconds off the pace, then I'll sell them to a HPDEer. Get another new set of tires and use the "old" 15 HC set as practice/scrub/etc.

You don't have to do new tires every 3 weekends, but two sets per year would be plenty and give you the confidence to just focus on your driving and racecraft. Trusting your setup and believing in what's under your butt go a long way toward you throwing it into a corner or chasing down someone else.

[Kaan]

Can I also request that you guys stop this "only my XX event".  It's hurting your own mentality about getting it done.  I too have fallen into that trap, but it seems to be this whole thing on the internet where EVERYONE is on "only my XX" event with XX.  

If you are learning great, dont need to caveat it; set your goals high.

: salute : yes sir

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You've been patient so far. Why not just focus on more seat time and practicing with traffic and try some stickers next year? If you got 225, you know you'll have me to buy them off of you

I still have an itch to compete and be more competitive... and I don't think old tires will actually help me dial in the suspension to the level required in H2. Its a fairly competitive class overall.

[Jake]

You've been patient so far. Why not just focus on more seat time and practicing with traffic and try some stickers next year? If you got 225, you know you'll have me to buy them off of you

It's real hard to practice with traffic if you can't keep up with said traffic because your old over-heatcycled tires give up the ghost.

[Kaan]

I am also firmly in the "you can't expect much if you're running old-ass tires with unknown HCs" camp. You're racing now and if you want to be faster, you need to have the right equipment.  I think you should listen to Spencer for setup advice and also buck up and buy a set of brand new tires.

I've got two sets of "dry" wheels - the gray set has new tires (now with oh, 6 HCs) and the silver set has old tires (25 HCs? Ish?). I can use the old set a bit longer if I just want to turn laps and be a few seconds off the pace, then I'll sell them to a HPDEer. Get another new set of tires and use the "old" 15 HC set as practice/scrub/etc.

You don't have to do new tires every 3 weekends, but two sets per year would be plenty and give you the confidence to just focus on your driving and racecraft. Trusting your setup and believing in what's under your butt go a long way toward you throwing it into a corner or chasing down someone else.

my math says I need 4 x 225s and 2 x 205s to finish the year (not a full season)... next year, using this years old ones as the practice set and rotating new practice sets in... I need 8 x 225s and 4 205s. Front grip is "key" and its been suggested not to run the fronts past the 15 HC mark... the rears "they say" will be good into the 20-25 range, possibly 30 once the suspension is dialed in well.

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You've been patient so far. Why not just focus on more seat time and practicing with traffic and try some stickers next year? If you got 225, you know you'll have me to buy them off of you

It's real hard to practice with traffic if you can't keep up with said traffic because your old over-heatcycled tires give up the ghost.

that's why I'm actually happy with the Beast of the East races. It is giving me time to dice it up and learn.

[Senor_Taylor]

If you start running stickers, you can sell them and get some money back too. The sooner you sell them, the more I'm willing to pay for them.

[Jake]

I enjoy BOTE. Very fun way to dice it up with some people you wouldn't normally play with, and it's a different type of challenge.

[Kaan]

I enjoy BOTE. Very fun way to dice it up with some people you wouldn't normally play with, and it's a different type of challenge.

its not different .... when you are so slow that the top E30s jump into your stuff at VIR but you are fast enough to run into half the SM field (all at the same time) 

or when the Spec3 leaders nudge you to the left (when they had all the damn track anyway) so they can slide through turn 1 to try to get around you at Summit... but when you catch them in the carousel (while pushing your way around the track) you don't nudge them back ... but you are fast enough to run into half the miatas and ST6 field (all at the same time)

I need these skills. I also need restraint with the Spec3 folks... and by restraint I really mean get faster so I don't have to deal with "him."

[Evan]

There is a lot more time to be had in driving skill than in new tires. How about running some track days? Most other clubs give you ~4 hours of track time a weekend.

Personally Id keep running used tires and put that money into seat time. Focus on learning speed and racecraft this season, and shoot for the pointy end with new tires and a hyper-optimized setup next season.

[Kaan]

I'm not sure I have the PTO or available time to add more weekends to the schedule. I am actively lurking for free weekends to hit up summit point when I know I have a free weekend.

[NTIman]

I too have mid corner to exit push and that is from lowering the rear of my car too much. Much more stable car than it was before. I personally am going to play with tire pressures/rebound first then start raising the rear ever so slightly. That's what I'd recommend over vs changing tires around

I adjusted rebound between sessions... I was running the lowest setting up front. I added 1/4 turn up front and went from 1/4 to 1/2 in the rear. what it did was delay the push.

Spencer (multi time H2 NE champ and national champ) says I'm using up my front tires and they are going away. that its not particularly mechanical push, but I need to make mechanical adjustments to the car to make it easier on the front tires to drive fast. some things he recommended to help overall:

1. run new or known tires (he said its impossible to get a baseline without consistent tires)... he said the 225s will take longer to heat up and go out, they wont give me more grip/speed, but extend the consistency... he also said, if you keep your alignment neutral between tracks, you will no need to rotate the tires as they will heat cycle out before they wear "too weird"
2. increase the front spring rate (the car, on 3 wheels, overworks the front tires)... he said that since this setup worked well on with the B20 but not with the ITR, the extra weight of the ITR must be causing issues.
3. get to at least 0 toe in the rear OR add some toe out to help the car naturally rotate

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Can you not fit a 225 in the rear?

I have a plethora of rear grip ... its a smidge tight on my restricted wheel size.... and might not help the front/rear grip balance I'm trying to strike.

I'm thoroughly in the fix the front camp. Remember what I said right after you finished the BOTE race? You were rolling over on the front pretty hard. Sylvia and I went down to the other end of the track and I could tell you were pushing bad in turns 6-9.  That orange splitter is great for watching what the car is doing and figuring out what it wants.

I think you would benefit from more spring rate in the front, and we will get a more accurate toe reading next time we set it up. That was a primitive baseline.

If you want to build consistency in the car, you need fresh tires. But you also need consistency in yourself. Seat time is always important, and as far as wheel to wheel, navigating traffic is only going to come by experience.

You'll get there. It's just getting all those little pieces together to make it happen.

[Kaan]

1000lb springs ordered for the front... along with a fresh pair of 225/45/15s for the front and a fresh pair 205/50/15s for the rear.

I need to pick up elevator bolts for the splitter rebuild... only a couple of weeks away from HYPERFEST!

[Jake]

1000lb springs ordered for the front... along with a fresh pair of 225/45/15s for the front and a fresh pair 205/50/15s for the rear.

I need to pick up elevator bolts for the splitter rebuild... only a couple of weeks away from HYPERFEST!

Yay! All of that together should be quite helpful. Now just don't lift anywhere. Except those couple of places where you should.

[Kaan]

1000lb springs ordered for the front... along with a fresh pair of 225/45/15s for the front and a fresh pair 205/50/15s for the rear.

I need to pick up elevator bolts for the splitter rebuild... only a couple of weeks away from HYPERFEST!

Yay! All of that together should be quite helpful. Now just don't lift anywhere. Except those couple of places where you should.

I'm going to need to buy a bigger set of balls.

Data says I'm braking too early in 1, braking too much going into oak tree, and braking too much going into 14. all of these corners I have "good" laps with, but not all together and its costing me a lot of time. all three together its costing me more than my 4/5... but I have a lot more confidence in the car now too.

[Jake]

14 is a hard one to get right with consistency. Being sorta blind, and having the ideal braking line not straight both conspire to make your brain panic a bit. I finally got faster there when I threw 100% of my trust in the brakes. I can still pick up some time there but I am faster now. If all else fails, just drive straight off in the grass.

My Racers360 analysis helped with my approach to T1. I was braking too early, which fucked my entire approach/execution of the turn and threw me off all the way to T4.

Once you get the car to a point where you can comfortably turn consistent laps, it may be worth sending Dion a lap to analyze. There is some sort of discount program for NASA members.

[ScottyB]

hey man you made a couple nice cameos in Jack Cobetto's latest video.

[Kaan]

hopefully some time today my comp school video gets released!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zm1Imf7RHI

this is me famously scaring the crap out of the entire front group of comp school.

[rherold9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zm1Imf7RHI

this is me famously scaring the crap out of the entire front group of comp school.

A+ brake lock up

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Kaan]

I was just trying to be a hero in comp school. Edgar wont shut up about it.