Civic of Doom: Honda Challenge Recycling

[Kaan]

i think the diff is okay... it was probably just the axle popping out. but i did have a bind i need to figure out...it might just be the front ride height and angle of attach in the corner... i dont have time for a proper alignment so i'll be head to jasons for a string job and corner balance.

[Kaan]

SO... if you don't follow the instagram (and I don't do a good job explaining it there anyway)


20 minutes into my 40 minutes session... the car was pushing terribly, especially in right hand turns. Even before the season Jason wanted to get his hands on the car and get a good baseline set... we ran out of time before comp school but ... off I went this past Saturday.



the baseline was set with left side camber only being -1/-.5, with the right side being set at -2.5/-1.5... whiskey tango foxtrot... my alignment went out of spec (or the spec the shop printed off before the tightened things down) ... this would make the car feel pretty terrible in right hand turns (all the key turns leading to straight aways at VIR are right handers). AND I had a missing upper control arm bolt (don't ask, I have no idea)



now that we had the baseline we rolled off the scales (leveled) we decided to set the corner weights. my cross weights were 64/36, "how did you make it around the track!?!?! this isn't optimal for left hand turns".... off we went to fiddling with the corners and getting things dialed down to 50.11/49.89% cross weights. my weight was just under the 50% of a session mark for fuel burning... this should allow me to add fuel and be completely in the sweet spot for an entire session.



It should feel like a completely different car in two weeks at summit point.

[Senor_Taylor]

Very nice! Curious to see how the car feels in a week.

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[ScottyB]

love it, this pile's still got plenty left in it haha!

[Jake]

Awesome progress! Hopefully that goes a long way in your comfort and speed!

[NTIman]

Between Kaan, Sylvia, and me, I'm not sure how we have any hair left that isn't grey 

We knew going in to Saturday that the car was going to need some work to be balanced. I don't think we realized how far off it was in both crossweight and alignment.

Getting this car to VIR and through Comp school was incredibly satisfying but I'm glad to have a good baseline setup to take to Summit point. Not sure I would want Kaan going through turn 1, 4, 5, or 10 at Summit the way it was.

The next project will be to clean up some wiring and slowly work on gaining some advantage in the corners. More important than that is being reliable and getting it home in one piece.

The patience Kaan has had over the last few years is amazing. Baby steps.

[Senor_Taylor]

Between Kaan, Sylvia, and me, I'm not sure how we have any hair left that isn't grey 

We knew going in to Saturday that the car was going to need some work to be balanced. I don't think we realized how far off it was in both crossweight and alignment.

Getting this car to VIR and through Comp school was incredibly satisfying but I'm glad to have a good baseline setup to take to Summit point. Not sure I would want Kaan going through turn 1, 4, 5, or 10 at Summit the way it was.

The next project will be to clean up some wiring and slowly work on gaining some advantage in the corners. More important than that is being reliable and getting it home in one piece.

The patience Kaan has had over the last few years is amazing. Baby steps.

When is the speed shop opening?

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[Kaan]

so the "best part" is... I "only" have to move about 52lbs reward to get the "optimal" FWD F/R bias... which we can do with the big battery/fire suppression swap. and that swap will clean up some of the cross weight.

the bonus is it will save me about $2k in a light weight big brake kit that I don't "need" to keep the weight off the front. I cant weight to remove that weight in the front passenger foot well.

[NTIman]

Between Kaan, Sylvia, and me, I'm not sure how we have any hair left that isn't grey 

We knew going in to Saturday that the car was going to need some work to be balanced. I don't think we realized how far off it was in both crossweight and alignment.

Getting this car to VIR and through Comp school was incredibly satisfying but I'm glad to have a good baseline setup to take to Summit point. Not sure I would want Kaan going through turn 1, 4, 5, or 10 at Summit the way it was.

The next project will be to clean up some wiring and slowly work on gaining some advantage in the corners. More important than that is being reliable and getting it home in one piece.

The patience Kaan has had over the last few years is amazing. Baby steps.

When is the speed shop opening?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Define "speed shop"

It's essentially started now, with limited equipment. 

Give it some time and I hope to be fully operational with a business license and whatnot setup from a legal side.

But yeah. As long as the weather is good, I'm open for business.

[Senor_Taylor]

Between Kaan, Sylvia, and me, I'm not sure how we have any hair left that isn't grey 

We knew going in to Saturday that the car was going to need some work to be balanced. I don't think we realized how far off it was in both crossweight and alignment.

Getting this car to VIR and through Comp school was incredibly satisfying but I'm glad to have a good baseline setup to take to Summit point. Not sure I would want Kaan going through turn 1, 4, 5, or 10 at Summit the way it was.

The next project will be to clean up some wiring and slowly work on gaining some advantage in the corners. More important than that is being reliable and getting it home in one piece.

The patience Kaan has had over the last few years is amazing. Baby steps.

When is the speed shop opening?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Define "speed shop"

It's essentially started now, with limited equipment. 

Give it some time and I hope to be fully operational with a business license and whatnot setup from a legal side.

But yeah. As long as the weather is good, I'm open for business.

Hell yeah. I saw the concrete part you have now. Fantastic!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Kaan]

NASA MA – Spring Rumble @ Summit Point Raceway
Controversy: I love beast of the east racing… its really helping me work on my racing game. The seasoned racers seem to hate best of the east… I HATE (in the standard races) when the leaders of another group get in the middle of my race (I know I know, get faster and that wont happen… I’ll get over it).



I left March Madness at VIR with a car that was pushing mid corner quite a lot. This required me to drive with the throttle a little (or lack of throttle) and I should be mashing the gas and make the vtaks scream. I felt like I was “fast enough” for comp school and my first weekend, but I needed to pick up time.




Solution… (see previous posts) lets check out this alignment and get the corner balance dialed in. Jason did a great job AND it really helped. It was much easier to drive, much more predictable, but later in the sessions the push would come back.
Add to that the unknown heat cycle of my toyo RR take offs and the time it was taking them to get up to temperature… was still struggling to stay with the main pack. I was able to stay within 1.5 seconds of the leaders (per lap), but they were hitting their best lap times on lap 2… where I needed lap 3 or 4 to get up to speed. Obviously lots to work on… to include working through lapped traffic and getting wrapped up with being overtaken just as I am catching the next HC car.
The bad… the push kept me from going flat from turn 6-9 and I’m giving up time. I’m still 50/50 on my starts… I either nail it or bomb it. But my battery was dying and throwing off my tach signal, and that’s all fixed up.


The good… the car under braking was much better. I’m not good enough to bomb into the pack of cars in Turn 1/Turn 5 (which I seem to catch lots of people there but id rather not bend up the car). There is 100% an advantage if you are running the B16/ITR gear box vs. the GSR I’m running… but giving up raw acceleration out of turn T10 and up T9 (and the push through the carousel) and not be “that far” off the pace, I’ll take it.

NEXT…
I need to fix a wheel bearing that I can “feel” is just starting to get notchy… I’ll leave that to someone who wont ghetto it up so badly (Jason). After watching C. Mike break 4 studs and lose a wheel, I’ll let someone that knows what they are doing deal with that bearing.
I’m a cheap cheap man (sorta). Sure I’ll buy a $500 coil on plug setup so I don’t have to fight distributors, but I live on $100 sets of take offs. Talking to Adam Molaver (SM driver), the SM guys (that I get my take offs from) will sell their tires when they drop 1-2 seconds off their lap times. How far was I off? Why are they gapping me in the first 2-3 laps? Yeah… I need a fresh set of tires… and I’m hoping to do it before Hyperfest SO I can put up a fight in a +20 car field.

To date I have been running a square 205/50/15… easy to rotate, etc. because of the push I’m debating on throwing a new set of 225s up front with a 10mm spacer. This should help with the push but it means I cant “rotate” my tires. The other thought is to get a new set of 205/50/15s and run 10mm spacers… if that doesn’t work out well enough at hyperfest, buy a pair of 225s and have two “low heat cycle” pairs for the rear.

HYPERFEST HERE WE COME!!!! We should have at least 20 H2 Honda Challenge cars… I cant wait.

[rherold9]

Well, you are picking up speed and you'll get more balls with time and comfort level of the car as you understand what it's doing. Got to drive the way the car lets you. If it's pushing, you have to go slower in so you can go faster out..

[Senor_Taylor]

Can you not fit a 225 in the rear?

[rherold9]

I too have mid corner to exit push and that is from lowering the rear of my car too much. Much more stable car than it was before. I personally am going to play with tire pressures/rebound first then start raising the rear ever so slightly. That's what I'd recommend over vs changing tires around

[Kaan]

I too have mid corner to exit push and that is from lowering the rear of my car too much. Much more stable car than it was before. I personally am going to play with tire pressures/rebound first then start raising the rear ever so slightly. That's what I'd recommend over vs changing tires around

I adjusted rebound between sessions... I was running the lowest setting up front. I added 1/4 turn up front and went from 1/4 to 1/2 in the rear. what it did was delay the push.

Spencer (multi time H2 NE champ and national champ) says I'm using up my front tires and they are going away. that its not particularly mechanical push, but I need to make mechanical adjustments to the car to make it easier on the front tires to drive fast. some things he recommended to help overall:

1. run new or known tires (he said its impossible to get a baseline without consistent tires)... he said the 225s will take longer to heat up and go out, they wont give me more grip/speed, but extend the consistency... he also said, if you keep your alignment neutral between tracks, you will no need to rotate the tires as they will heat cycle out before they wear "too weird"
2. increase the front spring rate (the car, on 3 wheels, overworks the front tires)... he said that since this setup worked well on with the B20 but not with the ITR, the extra weight of the ITR must be causing issues.
3. get to at least 0 toe in the rear OR add some toe out to help the car naturally rotate

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Can you not fit a 225 in the rear?

I have a plethora of rear grip ... its a smidge tight on my restricted wheel size.... and might not help the front/rear grip balance I'm trying to strike.

[.RJ]

more rear rebound, more rear spring rate

[Kaan]

more rear rebound, more rear spring rate

Spencer said "less rear spring rate... don't touch the bar until you stop picking up the wheel"

[D_Eclipse9916]

more rear rebound, more rear spring rate

No    That's how you fuck up a FWD car.  Sorry, driven a set up like this and it's garbage.  All you are doing is reducing overall grip instead of focusing on how to fix the front.  
With old tires, all you are doing is guessing at setup, that's why you only test on brand new tires. 

Spencer has good knowledge base, follow his effort.  That said, as you know to go from where you are to the front of the mid-pack is all driving.  Setup is only seperating the front from the front of mid-pack.

[rherold9]

Yeah, for sure listen to what the experienced guy in these cars has to say. Was only giving generalities on what can fix it. Numerous issues can come into play

[Kaan]

more rear rebound, more rear spring rate

No    That's how you fuck up a FWD car.  Sorry, driven a set up like this and it's garbage.  All you are doing is reducing overall grip instead of focusing on how to fix the front.  
With old tires, all you are doing is guessing at setup, that's why you only test on brand new tires. 

Spencer has good knowledge base, follow his effort.  That said, as you know to go from where you are to the front of the mid-pack is all driving.  Setup is only seperating the front from the front of mid-pack.

there are 2-3 (2 rookies and a second year driver) of us knocking on the door of the mid pack. I have the least seat time of all of us in our cars... so I know that will help. I also know learning "race craft" will help.

I'd like to set a good baseline, so that's really the goal now. I checked the comp school box, now to make "small" adjustments to the car between events, and concentrate on the driver as I set the baseline and develop (car and driver).

Once I move the weight around in the car (goal after hyperfest) I'll hit you up on that offer.

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Yeah, for sure listen to what the experienced guy in these cars has to say. Was only giving generalities on what can fix it. Numerous issues can come into play

I gave Spencer the complete run down... he said I'm "in the ball park"  but made some suggestions, in order to try, to help out.

I'm just not too trilled going down the "set of tires every 3 weekends" route ... I'm so cheap