Students Who Race

[GTBrandon]

So I go back and forth on this all the time and wanted to get some input and also see who else was in this situation during school. I want to start to do HPDE while in school with my current car and eventually with an E series BMW once money allows. 

What I want to know is who while at JMU did this at the track if anyone, and if so how often you did this and how it worked out. I'm not sure how many other people who are current students think about this, but I know I really want to get into this, hence why I work at the track all the time and build up credits. It's safe to say after my first hyperdrive this past weekend with Jake (Thanks again for the great instructions), that I'm now addicted to driving on the track and ride alongs just don't do it for me anymore.

So who was tracking their car in college, and if not then are there reasons I should be aware of (obviously time and money). Also besides DJ and Jake, what current Alum track their cars either with NASA or with other organizations?

[Senor_Taylor]

Obviously I didn't track in school, but I can assure you it comes down to two things. Time and money. If you have enough of both, I see no reason it won't be possible. Ryan Herold is the most recent student to do DE while he was in school.

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[SlimKlim]

Don't track a car you can't walk away from. And by "walk away from," I mean you're prepared to stroke a check to replace the car at any time.

It's all fun & games until your shit is all crumpled up, the insurance company won't touch you with a 10ft pole if they know you've been on track, and trying to hide it from them is a dangerous game.

If you're ready to write the check then knock your socks off. My personal recommendation would be run what u brung in Auto-X until you graduate. If you just have to be on track I'd sell that big luxobarge and pick up a cheap, track-friendly platform. If that can't happen for whatever reason, graduation will be here before you know it.

[GTBrandon]

Don't track a car you can't walk away from. And by "walk away from," I mean you're prepared to stroke a check to replace the car at any time.

It's all fun & games until your shit is all crumpled up, the insurance company won't touch you with a 10ft pole if they know you've been on track, and trying to hide it from them is a dangerous game.

If you're ready to write the check then knock your socks off. My personal recommendation would be run what u brung in Auto-X until you graduate. If you just have to be on track I'd sell that big luxobarge and pick up a cheap, track-friendly platform. If that can't happen for whatever reason, graduation will be here before you know it.

Even for DE1 and DE2? I wouldn't plan on going higher than that without having a different car that as you say I would be ready to walk away from at any moment, just want to find an excuse to get on the track with what I have now.

Taylor, sell me that E30 so I can throw it into a tire wall

[Senor_Taylor]

Sure, $6000 and it's all yours. I'll even install all the suspension.

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[GTBrandon]

Sure, $600 and it's all yours. I'll even install all the suspension.

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Fixed that for you, but we have a deal

[Senor_Taylor]

Cute. See you on the track. I'll be in a grey e30 in a tire wall.

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[SlimKlim]

Even for DE1 and DE2? 

Tracking is tracking. That's like saying you bang your girlfriend without protection but it's ok cause you never go more than halfway in.

Crazy shit happens, even in DE1 and DE2. You could be the most obsessively cautious driver who listens to his instructor and does everything right, and some crazy fucknuckle who came to the track to see how fast his Mustang is and doesn't want to listen to the instructor can still total your car. 

An instructor died that way the last day I did a hyperdrive, some shitbag in DE1 in a GTO was going way too hard and not listening to his instructor on Jefferson and ended up wrapping the passenger's door around a tree.

You do you. The most important thing is that you understand the risks of your decisions and are comfortable with them.

[GTBrandon]

Even for DE1 and DE2? 

Tracking is tracking. That's like saying you bang your girlfriend without protection but it's ok cause you never go more than halfway in.

Crazy shit happens, even in DE1 and DE2. You could be the most obsessively cautious driver who listens to his instructor and does everything right, and some crazy fucknuckle who came to the track to see how fast his Mustang is and doesn't want to listen to the instructor can still total your car. 

An instructor died that way the last day I did a hyperdrive, some shitbag in DE1 in a GTO was going way too hard and not listening to his instructor on Jefferson and ended up wrapping the passenger's door around a tree.

You do you. The most important thing is that you understand the risks of your decisions and are comfortable with them.

Exactly why I made this thread, to hear things like this and reconsider having my current and only car on the track. Maybe it will be best to work for money while at the track, and at the end of the summer buy a trackable car and just over time slightly modify it to make it better and faster

[Senor_Taylor]

Just autocross until you're blue in the face. Even our Lord and Savior DJ Fitzpatrick has done like 150 autocross events.

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[Jake]

Hm this is a fun topic and I have nothing going on at work soooo buckle in.

I bought my Miata the summer before sophomore year and started working track weekends sometime around there as well. Never had the money to put a rollbar in it so I never tracked it. That was probably smart as like Joey says, I could not have afforded to write the car off.

I'd met an instructor friend through working the NASA events, named Carrie. She instructed and drove a white NA Miata and her then-husband Joe was her crew. They offered to let me use their car for some HPDE my senior year of college. I saved the money I earned between working with NASA and my internship with AOL to pay for maybe... three events? All they asked for was that I fill the tank.

I also did a single Hyperdrive in the E34 535i that I purchased (with Maeng as my copilot). In hindsight that car was a POS that should not have been tracked, but hey we made it through 25 minutes of not-much speed.

One of the first "big boy" paychecks I earned after graduation went toward a rollbar for my personal Miata and it's been all downhill from there.

Definitely absolutely keep in mind that people have totaled cars (or badly damaged them) in HPDE 1 and 2. I've been doing this since 2008 and seen it happen more than once. It only takes one bad judgement call or delayed reaction to put you off track. Ideally you spin, occasionally someone boinks something. It's less of a big deal on an older car, and if you had an E36 or something, I'd just tell you to drive it and be sorta careful. But an F30 is still worth quite a bit, and good luck getting your road insurance to cover a track incident should it happen.

Lockton Motorsports is one of a few companies to offer track day insurance. For the F30, I may consider it if you do more than another event or two.

May be helpful to see my overall timeline, too:
2008: Buy Miata, start working with NASA
2010: Do first HPDEs in borrowed car
2011: Buy rollbar for Miata, work through HPDE 1 and 2
2012: Work through HPDE 2 and 3, blow up Miata engine #1, use E36 325i for some HPDE and pace car duties
2013: Drive pace car for NASA, slowly rebuild Miata, blow up Miata engine #2, say "fuck this" and buy E36 M3. Crash it once, lightly.
2014: Start Time Trial in M3 after installing basic safety gear (rollbar, seats, harnesses)
2015: Continue TT in M3. Crash it again in November, harder this time.
2016: Get full rollcage installed in M3. TT the M3 some more. Go faster.
2017: Get W2W competition license. Race the M3 in GTS2. Crash it into a SpecE30, blame unclear but partially mine. Have frame rails pulled, keep racing. Finish season on two wheels in a blaze of tire smoke at Oak Tree.

[Tyler.M]

I wish I tracked when I was in school but like others have said, it's risky and even low level stuff is inherently risky. Autocrosses are your friend and probably more fun anyways since you're actually competing. I switched to motorcycles as being my go-fast crack dealer shortly after joining the club so I can't talk much on cost and such but beyond one story I've heard of a 'vette owner, you shouldn't have any issues with damage to your car.

[GTBrandon]

Seems like the general consensus is don’t take my one and only car on the track as you never go onto the track with the intention of “I’m going to total my car today”. I guess it’s skewing to look at people 10 years older making 10x more and think, “Hey I can do this as a 20 year old in college with a part time job.” Autocross is definitely fun for me but nothing compared to being on track, yet it is safer and more realistic so I’ll stick to it for now.

[Senor_Taylor]

Dude, look at me. I've owned two vehicles for almost 3 years now and my immediate plan for the Miata I bought back in 2015 was track it until the wheels fell off. Here I am 3 cars later and I'm still not sure I'll get this thing on the track before 2018. Autocross Autocross Autocross. If the size, weight, and lack of competition in the F30 bother you for autocross, take the money you would spend tracking and save up for a cheap Miata (I know you don't like how small they are, get over it, you're not that tall ) and autocross. You'll be competitive and have fun, and you'll also have a reliable convertible to rip around. There's so much fun left in autocross, you don't even know. Wait until you're doing fun road trips to new places to do events that aren't packed to the gills and you get 7+ runs a day.

[GTBrandon]

God why do you have to be right. I just see everyone who once had a Miata who then sold them and think to myself why would I get one just to sell it. But I also see that hey, literally everyone has had one, so maybe I should see why there’s a trend. Also side note, I sat in one at the track where all the foam had been taken out of the stock seats, and my eyeline was finally comfortable without the roof pillar right in my face. So we’ll just have to see...

[Senor_Taylor]

Miatas aren't the end-all be-all. They are, however, the best RWD sports car you can buy for $3000. (At least in my opinion). Everyone who has had one in MM bought theirs because they wanted an extremely fun, reliable, and capable car on a budget. Then when there budget expanded, so did there requirements for a car. When "Cheap" or "reliable" is taken from the equation, there are other options to consider. A Miata a great college car to put the top down and drive to class, an e30 that's always broken or a 240 that's clapped out don't really satisfy that role as well. I have my e30 now, but I know I would have been sitting in a pool of tears as my car burned to the ground if I tried to own one in college. Just look at my dumpster fire of E46 ownership. You'll need to take off the gucci shoes and lower your expectation of comfort for the Miata, but you'll love it.

They also hold their value, and NAs are actually appreciation in certain situations now. They are the perfect fit. Don't let me make it sound like Miata is the only answer. If you can somehow find a Z car, E30/E36, something else RWD and 5 Speed in good condition, they could also fit the bill, but I can say with confidence that $3000 will get you a Miata that will do just fine. Go read my Miata thread if you want the story of me buying a $2000 Miata.

[Tyler.M]

Miata Is Always The Answer

[*insertusernamehere*]

I'd get an e36 if you want a track car. I agree if you don't have a stash just chilling not doing anything that you're ready to use to *just take the car home* then don't be on track. Heck, Ryan H in DE1/2 went off track into some dirt, got rocks in the bead of his tire at summit and then had to tow his car to a shop like 30 miles away, I drove him to Richmond that night, and he had to get all the way back to Nova to pick up his car from the shop. All for a bead in his tire for going off in DE1/2. And at the time that was his only car. No truck yet.

Personally I'm still not on track cause I want to be able to foot the safety equipment bill, transportation bill (truck+trailer) and emergency bill before I even worry about paying for the weekend. All that or I'm prepared to leave the car at Vir and tell some bright eyed kid "hey I just wrecked the car and towing it home isn't worth it for me so go find the keys from the Vir salvage guys and it's yours". At first I didn't care how I got on track, I just wanted to, but the longer I am with NASA the less I am willing to unnecessarily risk it, seen too much misfortune. I'm going into it assuming I'm going to have a bad accident as opposed to thinking "oh it'll be fine I'm not going that that fast".... 100mph is 100mph. When safety equipment and truck and trailer is more affordable tho... it's GAME ON MOTHERFUCKERS LETS GOOO *Charlie diradour voice*

note: and another thing to remember that I always remind myself is your worker credits/entry cost is only part of it. A full DE weekend is going to demand more of your brakes and tires (and the car in general tbh) than just a hyperdrive so make sure you're accounting for all your consumables and keeping up with that expense as well when you consider tracking in school. It can get $$$$.

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[rherold9]

Seems like the general consensus is don’t take my one and only car on the track as you never go onto the track with the intention of “I’m going to total my car today”.  I guess it’s skewing to look at people 10 years older making 10x more and think, “Hey I can do this as a 20 year old in college with a part time job.” Autocross is definitely fun for me but nothing compared to being on track, yet it is safer and more realistic so I’ll stick to it for now.

So, you are right but people are just warning you on possibilities. We aren't saying don't track. We are saying do it but just realize these things and be sure you are okay with them then go. If you aren't then don't. 

If you want to go out but can't lose the car or don't want to buy DE insurance.

If you don't want to buy DE insurance than don't go if you can't afford to lose the car, etc.

I did 1-3 in college. It was risky. I was insane but it was fun and I would do it again if I had the chance to again. The Mazda3 was my only car and I really couldn't afford to total it at the time (risky) but I still went with it as I had a couple thousand in savings I could use to buy a cheap car if needed.

I hit a tire wall in DE3 my junior or senior year? I can't even remember. I repaired it myself and have driven two events on the car since then. I decided to put a roll bar, seats, harnesses, and hans as I was pushing the car decently hard (Something I'd highly recommend you do if you get up to DE2 and thinking of DE3 or even sooner the better). Before I decided to take a chill pill and not make up my mind on what to do, Christina Lam was offering to give me a check ride to TT as I was "fast" enough in her opinion. I almost did it but held off.

So to sum it up, it is possible to move all the way up the ranks of DE->TT->Race or whatever floats your boat in college. It was super fun. I used to miss driving constantly when I didn't. I've moved over that phase and realized when it's time it's time. Right now I'm doing karting, autox, etc. to keep me busy. It's all about what you can afford and risk you take. Just be aware of everything and own your decision. Don't question it.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I started out my Senior Year of High School doing a hyperdrive. That's actually how I became aware of Madison Motorsports as Julie Elsea was at the registration table and I had just submitted my acceptance for JMU.

I had a car that was less than $10k. That was a lot for me back then but I chose to autox/HPDE it. Looking back I never thought of the risk. I couldn't afford to replace it, but it also wouldn't have destroyed me as it wasn't a super expensive car to begin with.

How did I afford it? I worked every NASA weekend I could and from 2005-2010 I tracked as soon as I had enough credits from working. Since it was every 3rd weekend I could track, costs of fuel/brake pads/tires (get take off tires for cheap) wasn't that bad. That's only 3 events a year.

I blew up my motor during a mis-shift at VIR and that put my Eclipse down. Since I was in college, you can walk or take the bus everywhere and it didnt affect my life. The car was down for about 6 months, I hitched rides with friends and girlfriend at the time if I couldn't walk.

It's easily possible in college. Knowing your situation of a $30k+ car that isn't a very good track car to begin with, I would either avoid it or have lockton affinity insurance.

My advice is to stay away from $3k POS. You end up spending more time and effort trying to keep it running than actually driving. Look at Taylor/Matt/Jake's shitbox miatas. Notice a pattern they never really got to drive a lot of HPDEs like they intended? Spend the $5-7k up front and get to actually drive instead of trying to repair a car that honestly your experience/tools/garage isn't ready for at this point. Compare to Ryan Herold/Jake/I where we ended up with a little more expensive cars but actually got to run.

I didn't go racing till 2 years out of college and had a $15k SUV to tow my $1500 open trailer. It took another 4 years after that to get into a Diesel truck, pimpy ass racecar and decent enclosed. I think most are impatient because they see where "people are" instead of where "they started" and expect to start at the end. It's a process...