Montreal Blue 1996 BMW 328is

[ScottyB]

it's not like we're talking about Subarus here.

cheap shot, bro

This is the biggest thing I've ever done and considering I was going to be doing a large chunk of this on the solo, I was a bit daunted. Even then I really wasn't prepared for what was to come. I think what I am about to write is more about the obstacles I encountered along the way, rather than a detailed how to process.

i'm honestly almost as impressed with the writeup as i am with your insane dedication to this job. seriously, respeck. the first "big things" i attempted on my poor old cars was bullshit compared to this and i still managed to fail as bad or worse, so great job keeping it all together on something this major. i promise you after you get the car back and can put the struggles a bit further behind, you'll carry the confidence/knowledge with you from here on out and working on your car will be less scary every time until its just something you can do at will.

still hurt me right in the heart to hear about the HG giving you the finger after all that. sometimes, cars are really dumb and there is nothing you can do but drink a lot of beer and come back to it thinking about how fresh and new your engine will be going forward.

[*insertusernamehere*]

Yeah this definitely wouldn't have happened without my friends. Or well..it could have, however, the car would still be on stands right now. This can be done with only 2 hands but you would have to know what you're doing if you're gonna be successful. I'm just super grateful for the patience of my friends with the car and me. ESPECIALLY me haha. I run out of patience real quick. Definition of 0 to 100.

I'm looking at Joey and Jake's work right now and I'm not opening it up and putting it back together, I don't want to do that. I'm either selling the car or buying an engine. Still considering my options, I don't know what I want to do.

[Jake]

I'm looking at Joey and Jake's work right now and I'm not opening it up and putting it back together, I don't want to do that.

Why?

You just tackled one of the biggest jobs you can do, and it worked. Admittedly, a head gasket is another huge job, but it's seriously not hard. It just takes time.

Cost-wise, I'm in this for like... $400, maybe? Call it $500 to be safe. You're not going to buy a car or a motor for that, and a motor swap is a bit more work as it is.

We could have had my M3 turned around in a few days, had I not been a total derpface and broken that timing chain guide.

[SlimKlim]

I'm honestly not sure what the best option is for you, this is something that you should really dive into and extensively researching while you're saving up money to decide what the best option for you is. I think there are pros and cons to both a full motor swap and a HG job.

Pros for HG job:

1.) You know your motor, what gaskets and sensors have been replaced, and what has happened to it in the past. Purchasing a used motor is always a bit of a gamble
2.) We (Jake, DJ and I) own all of the required tools for the job
3.) If you *just* do the HG, it should cost a little less than a motor swap
4.) Doesn't require a hoist, and the front clip doesn't have to come off


Pros for Swap:

1.) Can be done in a weekend, whereas a HG job would have to be done over 2 so the head could go out to be decked and tanked
2.) You could end up with a motor that has significantly lower mileage
3.) The job is less precise, you're basically ripping the front of the car off and sucking the drivetrain right out through the nose, whereas just about everything on the motor seems to have a very precise torque spec
4.) Assuming you found a good deal on a solid motor from a trustworthy seller, it's less likely that we'd encounter "while you're in there" issues that add to the cost of the project, like broken timing chain guides.
5.) I'm not sure what a blown 2.8L is worth, but I'm sure someone would buy it as a starting point for a build and help offset the cost.

Ultimately it's up to you, I'd just crunch the numbers and see what makes the most sense.

[*insertusernamehere*]

Hard parts tomorrow, wish me luck.
Photograper - Joaquin

[Jake]

Hell yeah, go go go.

Are the intake/exhaust manifolds off yet? Both are pretty easy to pull if you are patient.

[*insertusernamehere*]

Nope. Gotta do that later this evening as well.

[Jake]

Exhaust manifolds are difficult only because each nut requires a slightly different combination of wrench/socket/extension to access easily. The small 1/4" drive works best for those in my experience.

Intake is easy, pop the fuel rail off (2 bolts, pull gently, place it out of the way and don't bust the injectors on anything) and 10ish nuts to remove. Remove the hood and cowl to make the rear-most easier.

If you haven't pulled the hood/cowl, you should, because it'll make actual head removal possible.

[SlimKlim]

Exhaust manifolds are difficult only because each nut requires a slightly different combination of wrench/socket/extension to access easily. The small 1/4" drive works best for those in my experience.

Intake is easy, pop the fuel rail off (2 bolts, pull gently, place it out of the way and don't bust the injectors on anything) and 10ish nuts to remove. Remove the hood and cowl to make the rear-most easier.

If you haven't pulled the hood/cowl, you should, because it'll make actual head removal possible.

Since he's outside the hood should probably stay on, but you should remove the cowl so the head can come straight off the block, lest you fuck over your timing guide rails.

Isn't there some weird push-clip thing that connects the fuel rail to the car on the OBD-II cars?

[Senor_Taylor]

Good luck, man!

[D_Eclipse9916]

Isn't there some weird push-clip thing that connects the fuel rail to the car on the OBD-II cars?

Yes,

[davej]

Since he's outside the hood should probably stay on,

The 2002 has been displaced again, he's got a roof over it's head. By the way, thanks for cleaning up/sweeping the garage last night. looked good this morning. (although i'm 99% sure that thanks belongs to Joaquin)
I'll be sure to apply the 'clean tenant' discount on your storage bill.

[SlimKlim]

Ah gotcha. Yeah in that case you can pull it to get some extra room, only 4 bolts and another set of hands.

[*insertusernamehere*]

Since he's outside the hood should probably stay on,

The 2002 has been displaced again, he's got a roof over it's head. By the way, thanks for cleaning up/sweeping the garage last night. looked good this morning. (although i'm 99% sure that thanks belongs to Joaquin)
I'll be sure to apply the 'clean tenant' discount on your storage bill.

Whoa whoa whoa.... I cleaned....some....

And you guys answered the questions I was coming to ask haha

[ScottyB]

your engine seems to quite like whatever you're feeding it. that's one clean looking valvetrain.

nice work :thumbup:

[*insertusernamehere*]

4K mile oil changes baby ...and now that i think about it.. The oil has been changed maybe 4 times in the last 6K miles...huh...

Well dave and I milled over the engine for a good 20 mins tryna figure out the next step and did not come to a safe conclusion, so that means its Q&A and research time. Pics first:





So after some brief research it seems i have two options.

Option A - Take off the cams
This seems extremely meticulous and delicate. I'm not sure if I can handle that. Even in just reading the background knowledge and procedure this is not something that I want to tackle with no experienced hands or eyes near by. However, IF I were to remove, can someone walk me through this? A slightly more simplified version and personal version than whats on the internet I think would help. I kind of have this already from Jake -

"Unbolt smaller timing chain that goes from exhaust cam to intake cam. Hang it up somewhere - you will have two sprockets and the chain as one unit and you do not want to let the chain skip a tooth on either sprocket. Hanging it will allow it to stay in time." <- that is also then followed up with some other fancy dazzy shit haha.

Umm. Y'all I'm afraid to touch that shit. Seriously. Like I'm pretty ballsy but i know when to stop and i think this is it. Tell me something. I think another issue i'm running into is a little terminology. I don't know what some of these things are or what they look like.

Okay and this part: "Unbolt cam caps. The cams are under a lot of tension, they are hollow and can snap easily. BE GENTLE." I was reading pelican and he basically said don't do this. They guy who wrote that said to do something with the valves, which I can't even see. It was along the lines of the valves being down or compressed so theres no tensions on the cam so that it won't spin or break while you're loosening it. I'm not 100% on that, i'm not done reading it but i'm tryna write this first. Bear with me, i've got like a 100 sources of info. I'm also just flat out scared to do this step tbh.

Okay that's Option A which i'd rather leave alone

Option B - Remove the head with the cams on.
This sounds quite dandy to me. I love this option. Lets talk about this. So my biggest concerns here are, can i just pull the header bolts? Like literally just stick the socket+bolt past the cam and start to loosen? This, even with the cams in, still needs to be done in a slow even manner to dissipate the tension, right?

Then when i have this out with the cams left in, the machine should be able to remove the cams for me and reinstall them, yes? (I'll call tomorrow and double check). When they reinstall them do they need to be reinstalled in any particular fashion? I read briefly on timing (for when i put it back together)...thats gonna be another story in itself.

The timing cover. Does the vanos need to come off before the timing cover? If i have the solenoid disconnected from the wiring harness can i leave it screwed into the head and take it off as a part of the timing cover? It kind of looks like it comes off with it. The right gear of the timing chain (see pic) has that big circular thing blocking it. It has bolts on the left side but its also connected to the timing cover on the right side, how do i do this? I cannot access the bolts on the left. 4th pics shows what i'm talking about best.

Also is this the part that i don't want to break anything? Cause i am being super cautious around this thing and i don't even want to touch it lol.

NEXT, can you talk me through disconnecting the cam from the gear. I'm pretty sure its as simple as Dave said and as it looks. Which is to pull those torx on the gear and it disconnects from the cam, but is it really that simple? Is it gonna peace the fuck out into another dimension and take my wallet with it?

When I go to pull the head off, with the cams on, whats gonna move and whats not gonna move? This is in respect to the timing chains at the front. A big part of my problems here are visualization, what to expect, what things are, what they're called, what they do and so on. Everything i'm staring at is brand new to me and i am at a total loss, i just don't know anything and for some reason reading is not helping, just presenting more questions.

Okay, I think thats all for tonig...OHP NOPE. I WAS WRONG. I GOT MORE. Personal notes

-Gonna delete the SAP
-Need to tape and label as many hoses as I can remember. I have pics but still. Re-installation is gonna be sketchy to say the least.
-Clean/degrease everything
-Figure out how to create a new rubber seal for cowl
-Make list of everything broken that may need to be replaced
-Make list of gaskets and double check with fcp kit
-Replace one or two vacuum hoses, the really bad ones.
-New intake boot, anyone have spare? DJ?
-New air filter
-CPS, forgot to get them with fcp order
-Knock sensors, forgot to get them with fcp order
-DRAIN COOLANT FROM THE BLOCK AFTER PULLING HEADERS!!
-come back and make this list longer soon

Le sigh, as stressful as this sounds this is 10000x better than the clutch. This is just a matter of doing the right things in the right order. Clutch was just a mess hehehe, I think it helps that I get to be standing :roll: :lol:

[D_Eclipse9916]

1st of all. Give up, you are going to have to time everything anyways, so it really doesn't matter what comes off.

1. Remove Exhaust
2. Remove Vanos (all the little 10mm and then the 13mm on the right side. Pull vanos out. It's going to stick hard but trust me, it comes out. (MAKE SURE TO DOUBLE CHECK AND TRIPLE CHECK that you dont have a nut or bolt in).
3. Using a small allen key, press down on that secondary timing chain tensioner (in between the two sprockets) and puta pin or small allen key to keep it compressed
4. Now that you have the vanos unit removed, take off the exhaust cam bolts that hold the Vanos chain (first chain closest to front of car). Remove both the intake and exhaust gear for this chain and ziptie where the chain is to the sprocket. Most likely you will check this for timing anyway and not just blindly put it back on.
5. Remove secondary timing chain tensioner (3x10mm).
6. Ziptie main timing chain to sprocket and remove exhaust cam sprocket.
7. Now is your choice to pull the cams, I have never broken a cam pulling them out and I have completed timing a bmw motor over a dozen times. Just simply do a half turn on each of the cam cap nuts. Then go back and do that again. Then go back and do it again. Then pull all of them out.
8. Pull cam trays, the lifters will fall out. Make sure to put the liftres back in the original bores they came in.
9. Take out head bolts, don't forget the very very small torx bolts at the front of the head. There are multiple, not just one and the remaining oil can hide them so make sure to get them all.

[Jake]

It's really not hard to remove the cams. A shop will charge you another ~$80 or so to remove and reinstall, and if you go slowly the risk of breaking them is slim. I just said BE CAREFUL in all caps to make sure you took your time and asked questions like you are doing, before removing things willy-nilly.

Maybe this will help:



You have to remove the VANOS and timing chain regardless of whether you remove the cams or someone else removes them. It's all just bolts, remember to look several times at what's not un-done yet if you get hung up (no rubber mallets! I learned the hard way) and to bag-n-tag everything for later.

Not sure what you mean by "timing cover" - I think you have your terminology wrong there. The timing cover/timing case is the piece that runs down the front of the engine block, and you don't have to remove that unless you're an idiot like I am and fuck up your timing chain guides. Re: that VANOS cover thing... there are bolts there that hold it on, I can't remember which but it will come off. You gotta pull that before you pull the secondary timing chain (the smaller one).

When you get that VANOS removed, you can remove the 4x bolts on each sprocket for the secondary timing chain. It really is as easy as it looks. Undo the bolts and the sprocket will pop off from the cam with the chain attached. That's normal. There are some "spring" tension plates that you can't see yet. They will also come off. Keep everything in the right order of "layers" (you'll see what I mean when you pull it) and just zip-tie it all together so you don't lose anything or let the chain move on the sprocket teeth.

With the cams, just loosen each cam in a star pattern. Do a couple turns on the first cam cap bolt (the caps are the things labeled E1, E2, etc that hold each cam in place) and then go to the opposite side at the rear of the head. Come back up front and do another one. You can definitely do this. Once you get all of the bolts loosened past a certain point, you'll feel the cam pop up a little bit (this is normal, you just relieved tension) and you can typically loosen the cam cap bolts by hand from there.

I unbolted the VANOS solenoid because it takes like 30 seconds.

To alleviate concern about pistons and valves making contact (which is legit, I read that Pelican article too) - put the motor at TDC (top dead center) before you pull the cams. Grab a socket and breaker bar (I think it's a 24mm?) and rotate the crankshaft pulley clockwise. There is a notch/line on the timing cover and on the crank pulley. Line those up and you are golden.

[*insertusernamehere*]

tldr: Thank you joaquin, dave, salar, jake, joey and dj. You all have helped greatly.The head is off. Going to machine shop tomorrow as soon as i can get it there and lots of pics.

Now for the long story

So this was actually not that bad. The biggest problems I encountered was just making sure everything was actually removed from the head and then the order in which to actually remove the sprockets/timing guides/chain etc. Like Jake has said, it really is just a big bunch of legos....a set of legos that i just scattered all over the engine bay, which I'm gonna have a grand time putting back together :oops:

I also ended up taking out the cams lol. Okay, MAYBE you all were right and its not bad at all. I was just so worried. Joaquin recommended that I pray prior to pulling the cam caps. I took him so seriously I paused to text my mom (the one who actually goes to church) and told her to pray for me :lol: I very gingerly pulled the bolts. Half turn? To hell with that noise, quarter turn! It probably took me twenty minutes each cam to pull them out.

Oh the real fun part was pulling the drain plug to let the coolant out from the block. I positioned the drain pan underneath where it would fall but uhh there was SO MUCH!! I was like shit....We made a coolant river as dave called it haha

This is where the going got interesting. So its time to pull the head and Joaquin and I are trying to just pry it up but nothing. So I took the chain side (the front) since I was gonna need to watch the timing chain guide and Joaquin took it from the passenger side. Pulling, pulling, pulling and nothing. Fuck it. I knock my shoes off and hop up on the front of the car. Right foot on the front cross bar, left foot on the passenger fender, freaking spiderman squatting over the head right now.

Perfect. I've got mad leverage in this position. I heave (and only once!) and POP, whole thing jumps right up at me. I instantly start thinking about the timing guides are I swear I've broken to smithereens now. The next few moments were so frantic because the head is heavy, the chain is stuck in the space its supposed to pass through, I'm freaking out about the guides, Joaquin is trying to move shit, I'm trying to move shit. Whew. So we rested the far side of the head down and we had to undo the zipties we already set up (wouldn't fit through the head). Then i'm balancing the head on the back of my hand, while gripping the chain to its death so it doesn't slip, and Joaquin is looking for a flathead to pull the tensioner out the way. The tensioner kept pushing on the sprocket+chain jamming it to the head. So I'm holding the head up + the chain and trying to weave it down though the head while joaquin has this massive pressure on the tensioner pulling the whole head away from me. Holy shit. Lol, i don't even know how to explain what a hot mess it was. Eventually we somehow get it through, while playing this one handed balancing act with the head. Then we re-ziptied the chain to the sprocket and pulled the head away. Good lord. That was a moment.

There's definitely more I could report but I don't feel like writing it. It can be summed up with: jesus christ why do i have to remove so much shit just to take off the head?! - and - Dude, i don't know man, i don't wanna break the cams, do i just do it!? What happens when I move this one things is it gonna break?!

So! How do i know if I ruined my guides? haha. Nothing looks broken and it seems fine but I don't know what its supposed to be like. The tensioner isn't on it, so the lower guide just moves back and forth freely. That's normal right? please say it is lol. Look at the pics and tell me what you guys think. Anything you see in the pics please comment on. Also, is it okay that i just left the head exposed like in the pictures? I put the hood back over but thats it.

Do you guys know how to finish up the SAP delete? I got everything out I just need to figure out what to do with the open holes in the head now haha.

Pictuuuurrreeeeesssss








This is how the chain is held up right now. Its staying in this position. I ran the zipties around something I can't remember out of view.














We did it! Getting it off at least....












It was extremely cool seeing inside my own engine. Like..really really cool. It's my first time seeing this far in a car and even though I would have preferred to not do this, its kind of awesome tbh.

I don't know what I would do without MM, you guys are all awesome. Round 2, reassembly, should hopefully be started next monday! Until then, cleaning!

[JPVA]

Getting the head off the block was really hard. We were rocking the entire car back and forth trying to get it unstuck. The timing chain tensioner was a bitch. Had to compress it entirely with a little flat head from an awkward angle, but once we got the head completely off our mood went 0-100 real quick.



Now comes the hard part... putting it back together.