Project 2.Slow Mazda3

[CaptainHenreh]

Torque steer was worse in your FoST than it was in my Speed3.

God I miss that car.

Oh, I don't disagree. People were like "tune it, bro!" and given I have no real death wish... no thanks.

The 1G Speed3's are soooo much better to look at than the FoST, too.

That was a pretty car. Shouldn't have sold it, but then, no sense in holding onto the past.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Torque steer was worse in your FoST than it was in my Speed3.

God I miss that car.

Jake got smart and got rwd. So at least when you hit the tree you had fun up until the hit.

[SlimKlim]

Torque steer was worse in your FoST than it was in my Speed3.

God I miss that car.

I test drove a Speed3 once it didn't so much as torque steer as just immediately lose traction and frantically scrabble through the first three gears.

That being said, at full boost on cold mornings my car can't grip for shit, I get slip in 4th sometimes, 5th if it's wet.

Jake got smart and got rwd. So at least when you hit the tree you had fun up until the hit.

:lol:

The other benefit of driving RWD is that in the snow, if you lose control and go into the opposite lane, you won't see the 18-wheeler that's about to kill you. If a FWD car plows out on you, you stare your doom in the face.

[*insertusernamehere*]

Yeah I'd take a Speed3 over a regular one, any day. Torque Steer and all.

[Senor_Taylor]

It's a personal challenge of mine to see how long I can go without owning a FWD car.

[SlimKlim]

I like FWD and I don't care who knows it.

So there.

[Senor_Taylor]

I like FWD and I don't care who knows it.

So there.

A kindred spirit

[rherold9]

I don't mind it either. Miata felt weird driving and I liked it just like I like FWD.

Purpose built FWD cars are nothing to joke about. As long as they don't have too much power and relatively light they have no issue keeping up with RWD. It is just a different type of fun is all.

[navin]

I've been trying to get into the "math" of suspension dynamics, and figuring out I hate math.. You might want to read this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.worksevo.com/Spring_Rates_1.pdf">http://www.worksevo.com/Spring_Rates_1.pdf</a><!-- m --> to see if helps with determining what spring rates you might want to run.

Maybe DJ will chime in as well since he is a nerd about this kind of stuff.

[rherold9]

I've been trying to get into the "math" of suspension dynamics, and figuring out I hate math.. You might want to read this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.worksevo.com/Spring_Rates_1.pdf">http://www.worksevo.com/Spring_Rates_1.pdf</a><!-- m --> to see if helps with determining what spring rates you might want to run.

Maybe DJ will chime in as well since he is a nerd about this kind of stuff.

I've been over this with a few track guys. Let me dig this info up. I think it was around 8kF/6kR for a DD with occasional track use

[rherold9]

Found it: 8kF/7kR gives about 1.8Hz which is a doable DD and track use for a Mazda3. I know this isn't exact for every Mazda3 just a general idea.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I've been trying to get into the "math" of suspension dynamics, and figuring out I hate math.. You might want to read this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.worksevo.com/Spring_Rates_1.pdf">http://www.worksevo.com/Spring_Rates_1.pdf</a><!-- m --> to see if helps with determining what spring rates you might want to run.

Maybe DJ will chime in as well since he is a nerd about this kind of stuff.

Motion Ratios work, until they don't. An E36 with good motion ratios handles like dog shit and is slow. That's not the case for every car though. Calculating out the motion ratios for an E36 has the rear with STUPID high spring rates that make the car almost undriveable. Case of Science Lab /= Real World Experience

There are also so many mistakes that can happen when calculatng motion ratios (such as unsprung weight vs sprung weight for control arms since they are half sprung/half unsprung, spring rate converted to wheel rate, and "spring rate" of a tire can all effect the outcome.

8k/7k sounds close though to what you want. 12k/16k on some street cars makes me laugh so hard when "bros" go OMG it handles like it is on rails just because it is so overly stiff and instead skipping and not gripping.

Again, I am not super familiar with setting up spring rates on a FWD car, just know when you are on the extreme and want to back down.

[navin]

I need to go through the math and see what they end up suggesting for my car, but I run a complete ass-backward setup from most Honduh owners with a stiffer sprung front, and softer rear with a moderately sized sway bar. It feels better, now to mess with the toe in the front + use a pyrometer.

[rherold9]

"And to wrap up this update, more math! I will explain in more detail later but I finally got some rough numbers for the 3's suspension geometry, motion ratios, etc. and I calculated my front and rear natural frequency as follows:

(9.8*8000*.9/407)^.5/(2*pi) = 2.096Hz
(9.8*6000*.65/272)^.5/(2*pi) = 1.887Hz

I estimated 407kg for each front corner, 272kg each rear corner (not entirely true, but the averages are close), and obviously rates are 8000 and 6000 kg/m. Front motion ratio is ~90%, and the rear is actually less than 2/3 (I'm guessing ~65%). Find the formula on Wikipedia and plug away.

Anyways, you can see that theoretically, 8k/6k is actually an understeer-biased setup as the front has a higher natural frequency than the rear. A 7k rear spring actually makes the numbers almost perfect, but I would have to have the RSB tuned just right to compensate for it or else I'll nearly kill myself again."

So, there's that.

Anyways, thought I'd actually update this thread and say I picked up used Ground Control's. Koni's have less than 1,000 miles as he just bought them. They are the Speed3 version so a little more agressive valving, the springs have idk however much the person has had them on for. Camber plates included. Spring rates are 10kF/7kR or vice versa I can switch them around as the springs are both 6". Coil bind is a known issue on harsh bumps in the front because the spring is too short compared to the front shock travel. I'm not too worried though. GCs lower the car max of 1.6" so I'll be keeping the threads between around 3/4 leaving the drivers side slightly higher. Dampers on 50-70% is recommended according to the previous owner. Should be way better than the D2's and I can always get new 2.5" springs at a later date.

I also pulled the trigger on an OEM BBK as the price was wayy too good to pass up may have helped I'm good buddies with the guy. Included are Speed3 caliper and brackets for the front, Mazda 5 calipers and brackets for the rear, Speed3 front rotors barely used, Mazda5 rear rotors barely used, SS lines, and Stoptech Street Performance Pads with about 80% life left. I have ATE TYP 200 Brake fluid to install with the new brakes. Rotor size alone increase is 1.6" in the front and 1.5" in the rear. A first gen Mazda3 with the similar kit (different pads) stopped between 88-90 feet. So, I think I don't have to worry about stopping. (Insert zip tied brake line joke)

[rherold9]

Well, I was bored this Friday and DipYourCar.com was having a sale I couldn't pass up with 25% off. So... I bought some plasti-dip for the summer wheels maybe even enough for the winter wheels. The color will go on in the spring sometime maybe before depending on temperatures in VA. I really hope the color turns out the way I want it to... I'll keep the color a secret for now :wink:

This pretty much sums me up:

[Senor_Taylor]

Real classy, Ryan.

[rherold9]

Early Christmas

[D_Eclipse9916]

Woohoo. Nice pickups aside from the plastidip :p

[D_Eclipse9916]

To go along with your Plastidip purchase, saw this on facebook.

[rherold9]

"Mazdaspeed3/6"

That can be said about almost any car besides the emblem. I think a more appropriate would have been the emblem, fuel pump internals, ego, and race from a 30 roll.

Mazda 3 owners - emblem, what springs or intake is best?, mazdarati or m3 (Yes, people say this so often in the mazda3 community it makes me want to punch them in the face every time I see it.), and plasti dip.