Debate tonight

[JackoliciousLegs]

Actually, there were several bipartisan fact checks post debate... and Bush definitely won for most BS.

Claim: Bush said he never said he wasn't worried about Osama bin Laden.

CNN Fact Check: Bush said at a March 13, 2002, press conference that he was "truly not that concerned about" bin Laden. His comment was part of a response to this question from CNN's Kelly Wallace: "Don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?"

Bush's response: "Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. ... And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban. But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins."

Claim: Bush said 75 percent of known al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice.

CNN Fact Check: Bush incorrectly suggests that on his watch 75 percent of al Qaeda's leadership has been brought to justice. CIA officials have estimated that 75 percent of the two dozen or so known al Qaeda leaders as of September 11, 2001, have been either killed or captured.

The estimate does not take into account post-September 11 activity, or new al Qaeda leaders who have taken the place of those killed or captured. The nonpartisan International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates that al Qaeda has about 18,000 potential operatives, but there is no official data on the size of al Qaeda's total membership, in part because it is difficult to track the number of new recruits since the Iraq war.

[.RJ]

What about Kerry's claim that 5,000 people lost their health insurance under Bush's watch?

Even though his figure did not account for new workers that do not have insurance yet..... there were a few others on cnn after the debate, but the BS pile was taller on Kerry's side.

[JackoliciousLegs]

the BS pile was taller on Kerry's side.

You obviously didn't watch/read all of them. Check CNN.com's fact check. They have one after every debate.

[.RJ]

I saw the whole bit after the debate. It was about 5 minutes long....

I did not look at the website *shrug*

[G.Irish]

Can't really ignore the Bin Laden issue. That to me is the biggest stumbling block in Bush's military policy and he has failed to address it at all.

Kerry's 5 million uninsured number was technically correct but as stated before is not saying really what he was suggesting it said due to the impact of immigration. However, his accusation that Bush did not meet with the Black caucus was out and out false. While the Republican party has had a historically poor record with racial issues I find Kerry's attempt to raise the ire of minority voters somewhat offensive and disingenuous.

[Evan]

then lets talk fact checks Jack
*cracks knuckles*

Wrong on The Black Caucus
Kerry wrongly claimed Bush "hasn't met with the Black Congressional Caucus." He garbled the organization's name, for one thing. It's actually the Congressional Black Caucus, made up of 39 African-American members of the House.

And in fact, Bush met with the caucus a few days after taking office, on Jan. 31, 2001. The next meeting, on Feb. 25, 2004.
Bush also met with the Urban League very recently.

Wrong on the Surplus
Kerry claimed Bush "has taken a $5.6 trillion surplus and turned it into deficits as far as the eye can see." But the country never actually had a $5.6 trillion surplus. The projected surplus Kerry was referring to was a 10-year figure that was already made dubious by a weakening economy and a pent-up Congressional urge to spend. The largest annual surplus actually realized was $236 billion in fiscal year 2000


Kerry twice claimed 1.6 million jobs have been lost under Bush, which is 1 million too high. -- 1 million of those lost jobs were directly attributable to 9/11, and we are gaining 100k+ jobs a month, so we may even break even by jan.


Wrong on Pell Grants
Kerry claimed the Bush administration had cut Pell Grants for low-income students to attend college. Bush said Pell Grants have been increased by a million students. Bush was correct.

Department of Education figures show the number of Pell Grants awarded the year before Bush took office was 3.9 million. The number grew to 5.1 million for the most recent academic year -- an increase of 1.3 million, actually.


Wrong on After-School Programs
Kerry claimed that "500,000 kids lost after-school programs," which isn't the case. A cut was proposed but Congress rejected it.

Kerry repeated that "I have a plan to cover all Americans" for health care. Actually, his plan wouldn't cover all Americans. It would increase the percentage who have coverage from 84% currently to an estimated 92% to 95%. But several million would still be left uninsured.

[ButtDyno]

Oh jeez, just everyone admit they are ripping stuff off factcheck.org and we can all go there and read stuff

[.RJ]

How can congress cut after school programs when public schools are state funded?

[Evan]

Oh jeez, just everyone admit they are ripping stuff off factcheck.org and we can all go there and read stuff

0wn3ddd!!!!!111 :lol:

[Kaan]

Kerry also said in his immigration responce that 8k people illegally immigrate into the US daily... then on the rebuttle for the same question after bush pummeled him from behind... 4k immigrate illegally on a daily basis...

[Mike]

fsdguodfhkjgh kjhgjkdfhnjkgsfjgdfkgnkjdfn glkdfiogiT^T*%$^#&*$^%&#@

[Maengelito]

this is why i hate intArnet political discussions

[Evan]

i agree. my brain hurts

[G.Irish]

Forget the War on Terror. The Justice Department's number 1 priority should be the War on Music Downloads!

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65331,00.html">http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65331,00.html</a><!-- m -->

This is precisely the kind of thing I was talking about with Bush's cabinet. If Bush announced today he was getting rid of Ashcroft and Rumsfeld I'd vote for him.

[.RJ]

Fucking shit......

The report (.pdf) -- which covers copyrights, trade secrets, trademarks and patents -- also says that those who benefit most from this theft "are criminals, and alarmingly, criminal organizations with possible ties to terrorism."

[G.Irish]

Does this mean college students have links to terrorists? Check your mailboxes for national security letters...

[Mike]

roflmao.... put the people in a world of fear and you can pass any legislation you want! people are suckers. how does me downloading an mp3 aide terrorism? fucking a i'm sick and tired of this bullshit.

[Mike]

next they're gonna say jerking off is linked to terrorism... if thats the case, ryan might as well be bin laden...

[Dragon]

ryan might as well be bin laden...

AAAAAAUGH KILL HIM KILL HIM!!!!

[.RJ]

next they're gonna say jerking off is linked to terrorism... if thats the case, ryan might as well be bin laden...

No that would be Greg. Or derecola.