Emissions issues!

[Apoc]

People don't matter.

[Mike]

Yeah - is the any conclusive, undeniable evidence at all carbon pollution is the actual cause of any of the changes in currents, water levels, polar ice, etc? For every scientist you find that says there is, I can find another that says it's part of the natural climate changes that've been going on for eons.

edit: did you ninja edit?

my guys have data: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm">http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm</a><!-- m -->
your guys i'm guessing do not.

[CaptainHenreh]

[HAULN-SS]

Yeah - is the any conclusive, undeniable evidence at all carbon pollution is the actual cause of any of the changes in currents, water levels, polar ice, etc? For every scientist you find that says there is, I can find another that says it's part of the natural climate changes that've been going on for eons.

edit: did you ninja edit?

my guys have data: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm">http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm</a><!-- m -->
your guys i'm guessing do not.

I guess if you don't count core samples? hrug:

[Mike]

Yeah - is the any conclusive, undeniable evidence at all carbon pollution is the actual cause of any of the changes in currents, water levels, polar ice, etc? For every scientist you find that says there is, I can find another that says it's part of the natural climate changes that've been going on for eons.

edit: did you ninja edit?

my guys have data: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm">http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm</a><!-- m -->
your guys i'm guessing do not.

I guess if you don't count core samples? hrug:

links?

[HAULN-SS]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/11/revealed-secrets-of-abrupt-climate-shifts/">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... te-shifts/</a><!-- m -->

natural ups and downs. Just google "natural climate shifts" and the word "abrupt" shows up over and over. Just because people happen to be around for this one doesn't mean we're the sole cause of it. Nothing's going to happen in our lifetime that's going to devastate us short of a comet hitting the planet.

[Ginger]

LA is such a great place, too.....

[Mike]

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/arc...te-shifts/

natural ups and downs. Just google "natural climate shifts" and the word "abrupt" shows up over and over. Just because people happen to be around for this one doesn't mean we're the sole cause of it. Nothing's going to happen in our lifetime that's going to devastate us short of a comet hitting the planet.

"A global warming of 3 or 5 ┬║C within a century, as we are likely causing in this century unless we change our ways, has so far not been documented in climate history."

Hurro? Nobody is arguing that natural fluctuations don't occur.

[Evan]

Nobody is arguing that natural fluctuations don't occur.

heh, these signs dont always mean the sky is falling, but this time it really does! they they are just arguing that the fluctuations that we are seeing now, are not only caused by us, but have catastrophic consequences (despite periods in history where it was significantly warmer than the alarmists predict)
back in the 70s when we were in a cooling trend (despite more carbon emissions year over year--oops!) the climatologists were predicting a second ice age. gotta get those funding $

hurro indeed.

heh. "my guys have data"
"your" guys have "data" based on computer climate models. my guys have data based on...uh...what has actually happened

some interesting links that I had handy, although im fairly sure that you arent genuinely interested in both sides of the debate anyway.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.climateaudit.org/">http://www.climateaudit.org/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.junkscience.com">www.junkscience.com</a><!-- w -->

UK channel 4 put out a great documentary called The great global warming swindle. do a search for it on google video.

cnn also did a documentary "Climate of Fear: Global warming exposed"


<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8383">http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8383</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,21977114-27197,00.html">http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 97,00.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=ae9b984d-4a1c-45c0-af24-031a1380121a&k=0">http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/stor ... 80121a&k=0</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://reasic.com/2007/04/06/solar-irradiance-quantified/">http://reasic.com/2007/04/06/solar-irra ... uantified/</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nzclimatescience.org/images/PDFs/archibald2007.pdf">http://www.nzclimatescience.org/images/ ... ld2007.pdf</a><!-- m -->

[white_2kgt]

There is no global warming.

[HAULN-SS]

heh..you had all those handy?

[Maengelito]

damn, i'm pretty excited about running summit shenandoah. chad, you fix your other stang yet?

[.RJ]

I was waiting for Evan to post here :lol:

I dont think we (collective) are 'causing' any global warming, but at the same time I dont think pumping a bunch of hydrocarbons and NOx into the atmosphere is at all a good thing. Yes my truck that gets 14mpg and I ride a bike with no cat converter (as delivered from the factory... ). Maybe it wont affect us in our lifetimes but thats no reason to say "aw, fuckit, take all the cats off".

[Ginger]

Yeah, and it doesn't mean there aren't an isolated non-permenant effects that don't suck. Go to LA, really.

[Apoc]

Why are environmental issues so sharply divided along party lines?

I'm asking seriously. Do people lean one way because they just happen to like guns and not believe in global warming or the other because they think everyone is a victim and the world is gonna end tomorrow..... or is it a result of the beliefs of others that have similar beliefs they feel strongly about?

It's really quite amazing.

[Mike]

evan, i'll read all that when i get a chance. yes, i'm genuinely interested in both sides... i'd love to not give a damn.

heh. "my guys have data"
"your" guys have "data" based on computer climate models. my guys have data based on...uh...what has actually happened

i'm not sure how you can say what i posted above does not = data. core ice samples show a direct correlation between carbon in the air and temperature. where's the computer model?

[white_2kgt]

damn, i'm pretty excited about running summit shenandoah. chad, you fix your other stang yet?

yea pretty much, just have to swap shocks and springs on it, I don't think I'll be going to summit with it though. Just don't want to track a car w/o roll bar

[Mike]

Why are environmental issues so sharply divided along party lines?

I'm asking seriously. Do people lean one way because they just happen to like guns and not believe in global warming or the other because they think everyone is a victim and the world is gonna end tomorrow..... or is it a result of the beliefs of others that have similar beliefs they feel strongly about?

It's really quite amazing.

the only part i can't understand is how people can just really not give a shit. it's the fucking air we breathe. i can understand thinking global warming is a hoax... there is data supporting it just as there is data supporting that it is reality. the jury is certainly still out on this one. i'm of the persuasion that until it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is a hoax, i'll try a little harder... you know, just in case.

it's the people who don't care about our air at all that really baffle me. like deersty... "oh there's enough of it, it'll just dilute forever."

[HAULN-SS]

it's the people who don't care about our air at all that really baffle me. like deersty... "oh there's enough of it, it'll just dilute forever."

not dilute. biodegrade in some form or fashion. When it 'acid rains' it's carbon going back into the ground, ocean, or where the hell ever, and out of my air. The acid rain is basically hurting nothing, by the way, except man-made structures and monuments. If those weren't around, would you ever notice it was 'acid raining'?

And sure I care about it. Just not enough to live in a cramped, expensive city, or buy a prius/civic/etc.

[Apoc]

Wow... I think that's possibly the best oversimplification I've ever read. Kudos to you sir.