Chrysler goes private?

[.RJ]

Public works projects aren't exactly handouts

They're not?

What about subsidized housing?

[HAULN-SS]

I'm talking about public works projects like putting men to work building the parkway and such.

[Andy]

PWorks isn't a very good idea either as witnessed by the massive retardation that is our road system. Our economy/govt shouldn't be purposely creating jobs where there isn't a need. Training an elite/skilled workforce should be the goal as evidenced by the success of the GI bill post WWII

[HAULN-SS]

Some people are much better with a shovel than they are with a pen and paper, and no amount of training can change that. Some people are good at running an air wrench 8 hours a day screwing in the same 7 bolts on a chassis and shouldnt be making 40$/hour doing it, and getting 4 grand a month when they retire.

[HAULN-SS]

OMGZESAT! Supreme MM Junkie!

[Ryan T]

Some people are much better with a shovel than they are with a pen and paper, and no amount of training can change that. Some people are good at running an air wrench 8 hours a day screwing in the same 7 bolts on a chassis and shouldnt be making 40$/hour doing it, and getting 4 grand a month when they retire.

And you should be making $30/hour (or whatever your making) for sitting around playing slow strategy games and posting on MM all day?

[HAULN-SS]

It's just temporary for me though..and I'm not union, or whining.

also: that's slightly exaggerated... I've picked up 2 open positions at the building I'm at, and put in for temp assignments probably at least once a week. I've been looking for work at least, trust me, sitting around blows.

[CaptainHenreh]

blahblahblahunionsarebadblahblahblah

And you should be making $30/hour (or whatever your making) for sitting around playing slow strategy games and posting on MM all day?

[WRXtranceformed]

blahblahblahunionsarebadblahblahblah

And you should be making $30/hour (or whatever your making) for sitting around playing slow strategy games and posting on MM all day?

Ho ho!

[JustinG]

No offense to your father, but why does he need a 1,000lb gorilla to protect his job? If he's stilled he can get another job. If lockheed wanted to fire me and everyone else here that I work with there's nothing to stop them, why should dominion be any different? The union's fly in the face of what a free market economy is and do nothing but undermine it.

Why would he want his benefits cut so upper management can have a fatter paycheck? The union allowed him to retain his benefits through their negotiations with Dominion. Also if he is "let go", he gets compensation from the union. And last i checked its hard for a guy who has been doing the same thing for 30 years and got fired to find another job that provides the same benefits and pay. Your coming from a total different background, this is a specialized job unique to the industry, not some office job sitting in a cubicle, what other job openings do you know of that are available for a Power Plant Control Room Operator, with no college education?

[white_2kgt]

No offense to your father, but why does he need a 1,000lb gorilla to protect his job? If he's stilled he can get another job. If lockheed wanted to fire me and everyone else here that I work with there's nothing to stop them, why should dominion be any different? The union's fly in the face of what a free market economy is and do nothing but undermine it.

Why would he want his benefits cut so upper management can have a fatter paycheck? The union allowed him to retain his benefits through their negotiations with Dominion. Also if he is "let go", he gets compensation from the union. And last i checked its hard for a guy who has been doing the same thing for 30 years and got fired to find another job that provides the same benefits and pay. Your coming from a total different background, this is a specialized job unique to the industry, not some office job sitting in a cubicle, what other job openings do you know of that are available for a Power Plant Control Room Operator, with no college education?

I know this is your dad and all, so whatever I say it's going to sound personal, believe me, its not. So just try and remove yourself from it and look from another perspective.

Why should he be given 'protection' in his job? If whatever he's working for isn't making enough money to sustain it and the company could hire someone else at 1/2 the cost to do the job there should not be some entity there standing in their way. My dad's worked in the lumber business for the past 50 years. There's nobody there protecting his job except him. What he's suppose to do if the place goes belly up? He has no degree either. Union's served their purpose, they are no longer needed, at all and are only hurting his country at this point.

[John]

Union's served their purpose, they are no longer needed, at all and are only hurting his country at this point.

That pretty much sums it up right there.

If you are no longer competitive in your job, move on. Unions only inflate operational and legal costs, and guess where that's passed on to? You, the consumer (or in many cases, the taxpayer, again, you).

My favorite union mentality - "hey, slow down, you're making us all look bad."

[Ryan T]

I think unions are a good thing, especially for the worker. Statistics have consistently shown that unionized establishments are about 22 percent more productive than those that are not. Unionized industries are much more likely to offer formal work training making their workers generally better workers thus making these industries more productive and ultimately having a much lower turnover rate than non-union industries.

[HAULN-SS]

the purpose of a union isn't to boost productivity. It's to get good working conditions. No major employers provide bad working conditions these days. Like I said, when I was with the airline, and the union was voted in (dumb as shit), wages went down, and mandatory union dues had to be paid (closed shop) so it was like a double smack in the face. The company didn't want the union, the dumbass workers thought it was going to be awesome and voted it in...and the company came out better because of it. Besides that, you can always lie with statistics...there are books on it. The only way that stat would be worth a shit is if they were able to measure a company with the same employees before and after a union was installed, same economy, etc etc etc...too many variables to try to even come close.

edit: just to clarify - company came out better because they had the same workers for less money...that was one of the things the union negotiated..wtf?

[Ryan T]

That would be true on a one to one study, but covering a country worth of industries the comparison will work. Include enough members in the population of your study and you can avoid your findings being confounded.

But your right, unions were not created to boost productivity, but how is it bad that they do?

[Andy]

No major employers provide bad working conditions these days.

:?:

Walmart is known for their great benefits.

[Ryan T]

No major employers provide bad working conditions these days.

:?:

Walmart is known for their great benefits.

:lol:

[HAULN-SS]

Would you rather them cut their benefits or go out of business?

It's also not new news that wal-mart hasn't been doing as awesome financially as they'd like in foreign markets and such. They have an option - reduce employee benefits, or start being in the red. You'd choose the same thing. At least the employee still has the job, and has some benefits. And the company stays afloat too - without forcing the employees to work in bad, unsafe conditions 16 hours a day.

[John]

Everybody is quick to bash Walmart as they put a lot of business out on the street, but in turn, they do employ a large workforce and provide many items at a much lower cost to the consumer.

I think unions are a good thing, especially for the worker. Statistics have consistently shown that unionized establishments are about 22 percent more productive than those that are not. Unionized industries are much more likely to offer formal work training making their workers generally better workers thus making these industries more productive and ultimately having a much lower turnover rate than non-union industries.

What study is this? Everything I have ever seen in the past has been the gross opposite of such. Again, it comes down to incentive structures and unions take away the accountability and dimish the initiative in the workforce.

[Dave]

Would you rather them cut their benefits or go out of business?

It's also not new news that wal-mart hasn't been doing as awesome financially as they'd like in foreign markets and such.

Just because a company is having trouble entering a foreign market, does not mean that they are on the verge of going belly up. Walmart has a fantastic system that limits costs to them, which in turn keeps prices cheaper for the consumer.