Chrysler goes private?

[.RJ]

oh, I got beat to the post...RJ and DSMs are gay

Dont forget

- RJ hates asians

[D_Eclipse9916]

And Jeff, I say this as my own and objective point of view, and I think you shouldnt take it as criticism. I am equal in my opinions, except fo maybe the 4g63 :lol: . I have looked at most of the market in looking for a 4-door daily driver and actually LOVE the look of the srt-8, but got inside it and quickly changed my mind. It was on my top three list (not the srt) until I sat in one. That is a product problem beyond anything that anybody can say. E46 liked the style, hated the drive, despite all the good things said. C-class, absolute junk, nothing else needed here and im a Mercedes Benz guy. Who the hell expected me to like a Pontiac???!!! I never imagined that, we wiill see how it is in person, but my point is that take a step back and try not to get too personal with it. There just is a problem with the company.

[Jeff]

my father-in-law who grew up loving Mopar and had a Charger w/a Hemi 427 was terribly confused as to why a four door sedan was called a Charger.

We all were...should have been called the Coronet. The Avenger should have been called the Dart. That would be more ballin. I like the nostalgia names...doesn't bother me in the slightest, but they need to be properly applied. The 300c should have a 2dr option.

[Maengelito]

-RJ is gay

-RJ is gay :wink:

-Brian needs to pick me up a box of always

[Jeff]

There just is a problem with the company.

Yes, but I think there is something more. They just don't market to you, or anyone in this club. I keep hearing SRT, SRT, SRT. That's the closest they get (outside Viper). The Caliber and Nitro have been very well received. The 300c stays strong but is on the way down. Minivans are a staple. The only trucks selling are 2500+ diesels...but trucks are hurting right now across the board. Dakota and Durango (Aspen) should simply not exist. Pacifica has the 40+ woman market in the cross hairs but is not enough car for the money when set beside the freestyle or the Caddy crossover. If you want more value or more luxury to find one of the other two. Sebring and Avenger have been well liked by not well sold. Customers say they like them, but no one is getting out of their Stratus or older Sebring. Also they are not stealing any Accord or Camry owners because of the perceived quality issues and the lack of defining style (I suppose I feel Andy on that point). The convertible will sell well when it drops, but like all other Sebring verts it will hit the rental companies and the old women...but not much else. The company is in trouble, that is why it is being sold, I'm not arguing that all is well in Auburn Hills but I hardly think it is the end of the line.

[Jeff]

FWIW stock has been up the past three days, $90 a share now I believe.

Oh, this is why I need a transmission...

[John]

I didn't read the past two pages of jibberish, only skimmed it. But from what I briefly read, JMU does not have a good economics program. Unions? What? LOL. Jesus America, get your head out of your ass and recognize that economies evolve - become more efficient or move on to a different industry. Economic natural selection - and trust me, the politicians have been trying to pad the pockets of our ailing manufacturing industry for quite some time.

Jeff, your protectionist sentiments are parallel to what the horse-drawn carraige industry said to Henry Ford when he revolutionized the assembly line by the way. Unions served their purpose many moons ago, but are not obselete, especially in an age of our current media and society...

[Jeff]

I didn't read the past two pages of jibberish, only skimmed it. But from what I briefly read, JMU does not have a good economics program. Unions? What? LOL. Jesus America, get your head out of your ass and recognize that economies evolve - become more efficient or move on to a different industry. Economic natural selection - and trust me, the politicians have been trying to pad the pockets of our ailing manufacturing industry for quite some time.

Jeff, your protectionist sentiments are parallel to what the horse-drawn carraige industry said to Henry Ford when he revolutionized the assembly line by the way. Unions served their purpose many moons ago, but are not obselete, especially in an age of our current media and society...

Apparently JMU does not have a good reading comprehension program either because I have no idea what you are getting at. Could be that I am tired. The UAW keeps the cost of making cars in the USA high, which makes it hard for car companies to build cars here when competing with companies who build elsewhere where there is no union to protect the worker. I suppose I'm sounding like I think the UAW is bad. I don't really mean to say that. The American worker needs to be protected. Its the UAW's job to keep the pay and benefits high and keep the employees happy. I know there is a purpose to it, but I think it is a handicap that must be addressed when comparing foreign and domestic manufacturing.

I guess I understand you to be pro union? But what do you mean by economic natural selection? Are we talking about the Unions still? Because that would suggest that Unions are not good because economic natural selection would involve finding cheaper ways to do things (bypassing unions and ultimately rendering them useless). It seems to contradict because to tell us to "wake up and realize economic natural selection" and then to be pro union does not seem to work in my head. Maybe I am just lost, I worked 14 hours today, so I am a little beat. Or were you talking about Derek in the first part and my anti UAW statements int he second...ok...I'm going to bed...

[John]

Unions are like mafias - they force you to enter against your will, promise protection but instead only strip away your economic rights and leave you with a lose - lose situation. They are the demise of all contemporary economies and will hinder future development of our industries.

[JustinG]

Unions are like mafias - they force you to enter against your will, promise protection but instead only strip away your economic rights and leave you with a lose - lose situation. They are the demise of all contemporary economies and will hinder future development of our industries.

And they are the reason my father still has a job and people still have electricity running through their houses right now. (My Father works for Dominion) Dominion tried to basically cut my fathers benefits in half and fire alot of people, but thanks to the IBEW he still has a job and still has his benefits.

[Andy]

Unions are like mafias - they force you to enter against your will, promise protection but instead only strip away your economic rights and leave you with a lose - lose situation. They are the demise of all contemporary economies and will hinder future development of our industries.

Come on, John. Unions aren't the reason why the US auto industry is failing. Unions came about in the 20/30's due to corporate abuse.

Union bosses and auto management dropped the ball and didn't properly forcast into the distant future. That's the problem.

Unions, in and of themselves, can be a great counterbalancing force as witnessed by Justin's account.

[white_2kgt]

Unions are like mafias - they force you to enter against your will, promise protection but instead only strip away your economic rights and leave you with a lose - lose situation. They are the demise of all contemporary economies and will hinder future development of our industries.

And they are the reason my father still has a job and people still have electricity running through their houses right now. (My Father works for Dominion) Dominion tried to basically cut my fathers benefits in half and fire alot of people, but thanks to the IBEW he still has a job and still has his benefits.

No offense to your father, but why does he need a 1,000lb gorilla to protect his job? If he's stilled he can get another job. If lockheed wanted to fire me and everyone else here that I work with there's nothing to stop them, why should dominion be any different? The union's fly in the face of what a free market economy is and do nothing but undermine it.

[HAULN-SS]

I worked for a closed shop company for a while. Unions can eat a big bag of dicks. They take x$ a month out of your paycheck, and you hardly ever see shit from that. The only time it comes into play is if youre ina right to work state and someone tries to fire you for no good reason. I actually took a pay decrease when we had some merger/reorganization stuff (airline industry) and the union didnt do dick for me.

I've read articles about Ford guys going in to work, and going to the break room and donig crossword puzzles all day because there wasnt enough work on the line to support them. When a company can't get rid of that guy, something is really messed up. He's not only leeching the company right then, he's leeching them for the next 30 years when he retires too. Screw that. A major union like that is only going to cause the government to have to subsidize those guys later in life when the company they're trying to work for ends up belly-up and all those assholes havent invested in retirement and such the way the rest of us have. We are going to end up paying for their retirement benefits, pay more for the cars because the companies can't cut their biggest cost, and pay in the long run due to profits of foreign autos being shipped off to other companies - so you're paying for little Daichi's college, and little Adolf's new bike..etc etc

[Andy]

Free market doesn't mean chaos and stomping on workers. The only thing the free market should do is efficiently channel supply to demand. Until we as a society can come up with a means to efficiently channel skilled/unskilled labor to where its needed, there has to be some sort of worker rights apparatus. If anything else, it benefits society to not have a bunch of pissed off unemployed people walking around.

[HAULN-SS]

Free market doesn't mean chaos and stomping on workers. The only thing the free market should do is efficiently channel supply to demand. Until we as a society can come up with a means to efficiently channel skilled/unskilled labor to where its needed, there has to be some sort of worker rights apparatus. If anything else, it benefits society to not have a bunch of pissed off unemployed people walking around.

I'm quite sure if you stop giving handouts to the unemployed, they'll go find work on their own. Even if means a 3$/hour paycut and a 4% 401 instead of a 5%

[white_2kgt]

Free market doesn't mean chaos and stomping on workers. The only thing the free market should do is efficiently channel supply to demand. Until we as a society can come up with a means to efficiently channel skilled/unskilled labor to where its needed, there has to be some sort of worker rights apparatus. If anything else, it benefits society to not have a bunch of pissed off unemployed people walking around.

I'm quite sure if you stop giving handouts to the unemployed, they'll go find work on their own. Even if means a 3$/hour paycut and a 4% 401 instead of a 5%

Exactly. Everyone wants a free market economy and a socialist govt :roll:

[Jeff]

Unions are like mafias - they force you to enter against your will, promise protection but instead only strip away your economic rights and leave you with a lose - lose situation. They are the demise of all contemporary economies and will hinder future development of our industries.

Your first post on Unions seemed anti-union but then said they were NOT obsolete and that is what threw me off. I thought you were getting at them being bad with the economic survival of the fittest argument. You are right, if we can't build them better and cheaper then foreign competition then we loose. The UAW is a major problem for that. But I'm not sure how I fell about saying "screw all the workers!" or taking all the production to Mexico or Canada. I mean...I want to say that...but I don't think it is 'right'.

[Andy]

Free market doesn't mean chaos and stomping on workers. The only thing the free market should do is efficiently channel supply to demand. Until we as a society can come up with a means to efficiently channel skilled/unskilled labor to where its needed, there has to be some sort of worker rights apparatus. If anything else, it benefits society to not have a bunch of pissed off unemployed people walking around.

I'm quite sure if you stop giving handouts to the unemployed, they'll go find work on their own. Even if means a 3$/hour paycut and a 4% 401 instead of a 5%

That's the ASSumption but history shows that not to be true. Read up on the 20's and 30's. The govt didn't start providing for the welfare of its citizens out of the kindness of their hearts.

[white_2kgt]

Free market doesn't mean chaos and stomping on workers. The only thing the free market should do is efficiently channel supply to demand. Until we as a society can come up with a means to efficiently channel skilled/unskilled labor to where its needed, there has to be some sort of worker rights apparatus. If anything else, it benefits society to not have a bunch of pissed off unemployed people walking around.

I'm quite sure if you stop giving handouts to the unemployed, they'll go find work on their own. Even if means a 3$/hour paycut and a 4% 401 instead of a 5%

That's the ASSumption but history shows that not to be true. Read up on the 20's and 30's. The govt didn't start providing for the welfare of its citizens out of the kindness of their hearts.

There is a place for helping people, however the govt needs to turn that over to private companies. Let private industry offer the handouts you WILL see the abuse stop, the govt isn't responsible w/ money, they are like giving a 8yr old a credit card and turning them loose in a candy store. One of my co-workers aunts ran a check cashing business a few years back. There was a lady that would cash 3 welfare checks every month in 3 different names.

[HAULN-SS]

Free market doesn't mean chaos and stomping on workers. The only thing the free market should do is efficiently channel supply to demand. Until we as a society can come up with a means to efficiently channel skilled/unskilled labor to where its needed, there has to be some sort of worker rights apparatus. If anything else, it benefits society to not have a bunch of pissed off unemployed people walking around.

I'm quite sure if you stop giving handouts to the unemployed, they'll go find work on their own. Even if means a 3$/hour paycut and a 4% 401 instead of a 5%

That's the ASSumption but history shows that not to be true. Read up on the 20's and 30's. The govt didn't start providing for the welfare of its citizens out of the kindness of their hearts.

The "welfare" of the 20's and 30's was nothing like it is today. Public works projects aren't exactly handouts. It's kind of like when you're out of work and your uncle says "well, I could use some help remodelling this house i'm working on. I can pay you 12$ an hour, but can't afford benefits"...and you jump on it to have something to do, and some income.