Opinions Needed!

[CaptainHenreh]

From what I understand, this is illegal, due to vehicle emissions regulations, at least for road cars.

Nope.

Engine just has to be as new (or newer) than the chassis.

Technically an engine swap could qualify as tampering with an emissions system. Falls under the same category as hollowing out your cat. But unless the EPA starts sending agents out ATF style, it's highly unlikely such a law would ever be enforced. (However, with the new, broader powers of this non-elected agency, don't be surprised if this comes around) There are, after all, entire businesses based around putting larger, non-stock engines into smaller cars. If the EPA was going to go after anyone, it'd be those shops first.

Also, some states (Five, I believe) require any engine put in a given chassis to be the same displacement. Virginia is not one of them, and therefore of no concern to us.

[Goodspeed]

There are, after all, entire businesses based around putting larger, non-stock engines into smaller cars. If the EPA was going to go after anyone, it'd be those shops first.

I understand that they would probably do that, but how does that make sense? If a motor passes emissions standards in one vehicle, wouldn't it do the same nestled in another vehicle? In fact, if you put a Honda Pilot motor into a CRX, wouldn't it be more efficient because its pulling around less weight? I'm not particularly versed in what modifying the stock ECU or replacing it altogether with a standalone system does for emissions (besides augmenting factory settings to allow for larger injectors etc), but I know many modified cars pass emissions so its just something I've been wondering. Sorry Ryan to derail your thread here

[CaptainHenreh]

Although this is probably way OT, frankly Scarlett, the EPA doesn't give a damn.

Nobody said the legislation was supposed to make *sense*. Fuck, when legislation starts making sense to the point the average person can read and comprehend it, call me because we've made fucking History.

[WRXtranceformed]

When you go to a standalone, your car will never pass emissions, because it no longer has an OBD connection. That's aside from anything intake/exhaust related, it simply won't register as a car when it's hooked up to a tester at an emissions station.

[.RJ]

Unless you left the stock ECU in place to control the little emissions doo-dads. Although that only applies to OBD-II cars.

[WRXtranceformed]

What do you mean? You'd have to just fully reinstall the stock ECU and get the car to run on it with no CELs (reflash or mechanical fixes). The standalone is just that, it controls everything in the car at that point. AFAIK, you can't use the stock ECU and a standalone at the same time.

[.RJ]

AFAIK, you can't use the stock ECU and a standalone at the same time.

Why not?

Standalone controls the important shit (fuel, timing) and leave the stock ECU to control the emissions bits. I didnt say it would be easy but there's no reason that it couldnt be done.

[ScottyB]

yeah you can run the stock and standalone management in tandem. audi guys do it so that the car remains emissions compliant and so tthat stuff like airbags and the gauge cluster works. the standalone just concentrates on the engine only.

[WRXtranceformed]

Weird. My stock ECU is completely gone. The standalone controls everything in the car. I didn't know anyone even used their stock ECU at all when using a standalone. I mean, from what you guys are describing, essentially it would be acting as a piggyback, not as a standalone...

[ScottyB]

I mean, from what you guys are describing, essentially it would be acting as a piggyback, not as a standalone...

haha, you have a point there. the "alone" part of standalone doesn't quite work in my context does it...

[D_Eclipse9916]

The word stand-alone and piggy-back gets thrown around a lot. The S-AFC is a full piggy-back, the AEM is a full standalone, DSMLink or Hondata or stuff like that is an engine management system, but cannot "stand-alone" as a pun.

My dsmlink acts almost as a standalone in the engine department with seperate timing, fuel, airflow, deadtime, global, blah blah blah shit, but it uses the ECU to create tables and make it much easier to tune, but it never lies to the ECU like a piggyback S-AFC. I dont know wether dsmlink is a lot like Hondata, but I can control all my CELs and wether I want them to be disregarded, I can turn off fpr, egr, etc solenoids, turn on fans, coolant offsets, anti-lag, NLTS, stutterbox, nitrous controls, and a lot more.
However, I dont know about Audi, but Mitsus and a lot of other cars I have worked on have seperate SRS modules, TCU (auto).

Looking at this you would say dsmlink or equivalents are far below a stand-alone, but look at your Hydra, all it is is another ECU that has different engine parameters, but works almost the same as a stock ECU. I Dont understand why people would use Hydra, but are the WRX's ECUs hard to control? I know there is no point on a DSM to go full AEM unless your wanting to run a full-speed density setup, typically only on cars running over 700whp because of lack of ability to get a MAF that reads that, and although DSMLink does have overrun using MAP ability, it is not quite as accurate as would be an AEM based system.

Scotty can you explain what tuning software or standalones Audi people use? I dont see how it can be a true stand-alone if there is still a stock ECU, and who would run a full standalone setup for a car with emissions? Maybe im too used to DSMs where the true standalone isnt advantageous till serious horsepower? I could not see the reason for a 700-1500whp car running emission equipment, and if they are not making that much horsepower, there is obviously no need for the hassle of stand-alone when much easier to tune and daily drive piggybacks are out there.

Let me know the answer to my questions, I truly dont know.

[WRXtranceformed]

I had no choice but to switch to a standalone. Besides the unparalled control it gives which a reflash of the Subaru ECU or piggyback ECU cannot provide, my car plain and simple wouldn't idle with any of the above combinations with my 272 cams and with the extensive modifications to the engine. Custom tune or not.

Basically my car would not run right without being able to say, through the Hydra, "idle at 1100rpms."

Another advantage of the Hydra is that it has a plug and play input for Hydramist, as well as all the benefits of a normal aftermarket EM (launch control, etc. etc.).

[Beej]

Uh, sorry to bring it back on topic.

E36 M3 is out, don't like the interior.
F-body is out for lots of reasons.

I've owned both an S2000 and an STi. I go back and forth every goddamned day as to which I really want to own. I've never been in a regular WRX, but if I'm this torn between the S2000 and the STi, and you're looking at WRX's...I'd say go S2000. The only thing I really got sick of was the lack of torque (which is seriously not insignificant...go drive one) and how useless it is in terms of being practical (want to go grocery shopping with someone else? You'll fill up the trunk and then some). Other than that, it's a fucking blast. You wear the car instead of driving it.

At your age, do you need practicality? Own one while you can have it as your only car.

Oh, and get an '02-03.

[BLAIR]

Scotty can you explain what tuning software or standalones Audi people use? I dont see how it can be a true stand-alone if there is still a stock ECU, and who would run a full standalone setup for a car with emissions? Maybe im too used to DSMs where the true standalone isnt advantageous till serious horsepower? I could not see the reason for a 700-1500whp car running emission equipment, and if they are not making that much horsepower, there is obviously no need for the hassle of stand-alone when much easier to tune and daily drive piggybacks are out there.

Let me know the answer to my questions, I truly dont know.

VW-Audi- Porsche- Benz- BMW all use a basic reprograming of the ECU. depending on years of the car and models a simple small plug in chip is replaced with an aftermarket one. In other cases that one chip is removed and reprogrammed. These CHIPS (or programed ecu) just change fuel and timing tables, along with boost if the car is turbo, raises rev limiter and removes top speed gov. Hondata is very similar to what they have been doing to euro cars since the mid 80's

When it comes to true standalone systems, I have a few friend with electromotive tec 2 and 3 in their VWs and they still use their stock ECU to control basic stuff that is not touched with the stand alone system

[Jeff]

This should be split into tech as an ECU discussion. Its good data for someone who might need it later.

As for Ryan. I'm not sure man. Did you ever consider an EVO? I don't know what they go for these days, but I figure if you can find a WRX in your price range I'm sure there is an EVO there as well.

[ScottyB]

Scotty can you explain what tuning software or standalones Audi people use?

i can't really explain it that well as i'm just not that educated on it. but the system i immediately thought of was the 034 unit many higher hp (3 to 500 hp) guys use:

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i don't know how you'd define it...i suppose it's really just a comprehensive piggyback. the term gets thrown around alot so i guess i just tacked it onto this sort of item

[BLAIR]

Did you ever consider an EVO? I don't know what they go for these days, but I figure if you can find a WRX in your price range I'm sure there is an EVO there as well.

STI is like an EVO.. a wrx and evo are on different pages.. EVOs are quite a bit more

[JustinG]

Evos are still goin in the 20s for an 03. EVO much > than WRX

[Goodspeed]

Posted April 9th, still for sale as far as I know

Definitely needs some TLC, but its the cheapest I've ever seen a TT go for so what the hell, just throwing it up for shits and giggles



93 TT black / tan interior auto, 250k miles, clean title in hand. Always ran stock boost and didn't see a mod untill about a 1.5 ago. It puffs a little smoke on start up occasionally. Interior is decent no cracks in the leather. Air bags were deployed about 4 years ago. there was no damage except slightly bending the bottom of the core support. Has a jz80 steering wheel and a new cover on the passenger side. has about a 2" dent on the passenger side above the wheel where a buggy at work rolled into it, could easly be removed with PDR. targa has flown off and needs paint / lil repair. Has new turbos w/ 80k on them. Car runs good doen't boost right or something when full throttle. also needs a driver side window, somebody broke it out and stole my stereo equipment today!!! It needs some TLC i found a car i want to buy so am trying to get rid of this.

pwr radiator
greddy 3 row
hks supper dragger
greddy type s bov
alpine headunit
delined 93-96 headlights
code 2way alarm

let me know if any questions.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthr...p?t=426439

$13,000

[BLAIR]

throw a low milage JDM longblock into that thing for about 1k and your good :lol: thats a lot of miles though

nevermind just saw it was AUTO.. add another 3k for 6 speed swap.. forget that car