SMG or no?

[D_Eclipse9916]

smg is faster, yes, but its not as much fun. If I wanted to save as much time and didnt care how the car was driven id get it. But I enjoy my clutch.

[G.Irish]

Would it necessarily be less fun? I love trail braking and overlapping throttle and brake with ze left foot. I think it could be just as much fun.

One problem with the SMG-type trannies I've heard though is that the operation isn't totally smooth in street operation. A minor quibble I suppose. Something that could maybe be remedied with more development.

[Sijray21]

smg is faster, yes, but its not as much fun. If I wanted to save as much time and didnt care how the car was driven id get it. But I enjoy my clutch.

+1

manual all the way

[Apoc]

I see SMG as sex with someone else vs. doing it yourself. Yeah, it's usually better but no matter how much of it you're getting and how cool it is, sometimes you wanna do the work yourself.

Perhaps a bit crude, but I think the metaphor works.

[ViPER1313]

+1 for 3 pedals

[G.Irish]

I see SMG as sex with someone else vs. doing it yourself. Yeah, it's usually better but no matter how much of it you're getting and how cool it is, sometimes you wanna do the work yourself.

Perhaps a bit crude, but I think the metaphor works.

Worst analogy evAr! Ten times out of ten I'm going to choose sex with an actual woman over sex with my hand. I'm never gonna say, "J.Lo, I know how bad you want me but I'd just rather do my own thing tonight okay."

[REED]

I don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. Why not just offer both, that way they can keep the purists happy and the guys who can't drive stick happy. Everyone wins. I just like having options and cringe at the thought of cars only being offered with one choice for a transmission. There needs to be an option to offer both on the poll.

[G.Irish]

So to clarify... is the poll with respect to DD?

With respect to supercars. So in the context of a very high performance vehicle that would see significant track time.

[Apoc]

I see SMG as sex with someone else vs. doing it yourself. Yeah, it's usually better but no matter how much of it you're getting and how cool it is, sometimes you wanna do the work yourself.

Perhaps a bit crude, but I think the metaphor works.

Worst analogy evAr! Ten times out of ten I'm going to choose sex with an actual woman over sex with my hand. I'm never gonna say, "J.Lo, I know how bad you want me but I'd just rather do my own thing tonight okay."

JLo wishes she was SMG...

So to clarify... is the poll with respect to DD?

With respect to supercars. So in the context of a very high performance vehicle that would see significant track time.

Since when do supercars see significant track time? And since when is the NSX a supercar?

[G.Irish]

Geez lighten up Car Taxonomy Nazi. Ok, high performance sports car since I suppose technically there's only like 4 or 5 supercars in production today.

[Maengelito]

wasnt bmw going to only offer auto or SMG until public outcry forced them to keep a manual tranny available? it seems like people want manual, myself being one, despite all the advantages that smg might offer. it shifts faster and it matches revs perfectly but that disconnect between you and the car by putting a computer in the middle just seems wrong to me. and yes i know i drive a car with abs, drive-by-wire, traction control, etc, but the transmission is more appealing to me as an analog control with clutch slip as opposed to a digital "in gear/not in gear" control.

[REED]

I would group the NSX and the new Z06 in the same area, they both have "supercar" performance at usually less than supercar prices.

[Apoc]

Fully manual transmissions will eventually go the way of 4WD selection. Remember when SUVs were really SUVs and you could pick 2WD-Hi, 4WD-Hi and 4WD-Lo? Now you've got auto torque transfer and full time AWD in more cars than you can shake a stick at.

Once the technology is cheaper and more readible available newer drivers will opt for it over manual and people like us will bcome a dying breed.

[Ginger]

Once the technology is cheaper and more readible available newer drivers will opt for it over manual and people like us will bcome a dying breed.

People like what, purists? Luddite There's nothing inherently wrong with new technology.

[G.Irish]

I don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. Why not just offer both, that way they can keep the purists happy and the guys who can't drive stick happy. Everyone wins. I just like having options and cringe at the thought of cars only being offered with one choice for a transmission. There needs to be an option to offer both on the poll.

The reason I made it either or, is to see what would people prefer. Logically for sports cars it would make sense to offer both for the most part.

From a business standpoint (read: beancounter) if you were only going to offer one a SMG makes more sense since someone who can't drive manual could drive. But of course if you build sportscars you could just say, "Screw those people who can't drive manual."

[ScottyB]

Honda needs to offer both. the NSX is a technical showcase, sure, but it's also about the purity of the driving experience. if it's anything like the S2k box i doubt anyone will be upset that it's offered with a manual.

that said, SMG is faster around a track and down a strip without contention in most cases. it certainly deserves a chance in that car.

[Apoc]

Once the technology is cheaper and more readible available newer drivers will opt for it over manual and people like us will bcome a dying breed.

People like what, purists? Luddite There's nothing inherently wrong with new technology.

I woulda thought you'd gone the "men of questionable sexuality who wants sticks to fondle" direction but I guess luddite works.

[Ginger]

Phil andI have been talking about this and it kind'a seems like maybe car guys could use an outside the box approach to the problem SMG is trying to solve.

The big time savings, the way I see it, come from the off brake, on throttle motion that SMG eliminates (use your left foot on the brake, right on the gas, there's no transition time). You save a little time in the actual shortening of the shifting motion, too. But I think the big gains come from the former... which explains why you only see quickshifters on bikes, no computer controlled downshifting, no super extra systems to eliminate this pedal or that lever. The design of motorcycle controls inherently allow seamless transition from brake to gas.. you can use them both at the same time in normal operation if you want. And it's immeasurably cheaper.

Instead of techn'ing up a $60,000 transmission, why not look for a "dumb" way to redesign the controls? It may take some time to learn the redesign (and on that note, SMG takes learning to get the benefits out of it, too) but you'd save a ton of money, a ton of potential repairs nightmare, etc. etc. And on all that... I have no idea what the redisign would look like

[Apoc]

you can use them both at the same time in normal operation if you want.

That's called heel/toe and all the (fast) racers do it faster than you can stick mashed potatoes to RJ's wall. Most of the gain is because humans can't match revs for downshift as well as computers can. No matter how much awesomeness you have, a computer will always beat you on speed and efficiently in the long run. I don't think any amount of redesign will make a difference because it's pretty much impossible to engineer out the imperfection of humans as long as they have input that matters.

[.RJ]

Andrew, the difference is the SMG system operates an existing manual trans with hydraulic controls (and the potential pump failures). Internally, the M3 SMG trans is no different from its "manual" option. A bike trans is a straight cut gear sequential gearbox - totally different. In a car, a straight cut sequential really isnt going to be viable on the street.

Now, what BMW has gone to doing in the new M5 is to totally redesign the gearbox internally so that it still operates like a manual trans but the internal arrangement is much stronger - this would ordinarily generate some fucked up shift patterns, but since everything is controlled with hydraulics anyways, it doesnt matter.