+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: SMG or no? (/showthread.php?tid=5167)
SMG or no? - G.Irish - 12-11-2006
On vtec.net right now the next gen NSX is a popular topic of discussion and the issue of sequential manual gearboxes came up. My opinion is that the car should have one and that if they offered one they wouldn't need to include either an automatic or manual transmission version.
Several people disagreed saying a SMG would ruin the driving experience and what not. What do people here think? Manual or SMG?
- Ginger - 12-11-2006
After learning a bit more about the paddleshiftstuff from Arnold I'm pretty impressed. The car's about a technical showcase and moving forward, right? I don't think it ruins the driving experience at all... does an extra pedal and a lever really make the difference? Isn't that the kind of thinking that indicates that, hey, maybe you're looking for fulfillment in all the wrong ways?
I always thought the NSX was about going fast. You go faster with a superbuttonbox. 'Eh?
- Apoc - 12-11-2006
I think a track car is different 'cause there's a lot to be said for an SMG simplifying things as long as it's smooth. Yeah I don't get to heel/toe but I suck at it anyway so I'm not losing anything there. On the street, I guess I'm old school enough to want manual so I guess my answer is "it depends."
I don't think they could offer an SMG and do away with an automatic since it's really just a clutchless manual. Well, they could, but I doubt they would because the average schmoe, even those who drive an NSX as a DD, probably prefers the tiptronic.
- HAULN-SS - 12-11-2006
Is SMG the same thing that's in my subaru? Push button shifting?
- Apoc - 12-11-2006
HAULN-SS Wrote:Is SMG the same thing that's in my subaru? Push button shifting?
Is it automatic with a tiptronic/sportshift style "manual shift" mode? If so, no.
SMG = manual tranny with automatic clutch
- G.Irish - 12-11-2006
No, the sequential manuals we're talking about here are similar to motorcycle transmissions in that the 6 gears must be selected sequentially but instead of a lever or handle that has to be actuated by hand your foot, the shifting fork is operated by a hydraulic actuator that is controlled by computer. When the computer detects a shift from the paddle it operates the shifter to execute a perfect shift. On a downshift the computer precisely blips the throttle to match revs.
It's the same shifting system used on Formula 1 cars.
The tiptronic or sportshift systems in a lot of cars now is basically a regular automatic transmission (replete with a torque converter) that allows the driver to select when to shift but the shifts are much slower.
- HAULN-SS - 12-11-2006
Ah, I see now.
- Apoc - 12-11-2006
Can you bounce an SMG off the limiter like you can a manual? If not, can you at least take it all the way to redline? Read: Are they less dummy in a box than the sport mode for auto transmissions?
- BLINGMW - 12-11-2006
with Honda as cutting edge as they like to be, don't they have something more creative than SMG.... like DSG? Supercar should have super transmission. I vote for at least SMG (because I'm not their target market, doesn't matter if I'd actually prefer a good 'ol manual)
- Evan - 12-11-2006
I know a rich kid whose parents bought him an SMG M3 because he didnt know how to drive stick.
IMO, it should be an option replacing the automatic.
6 speed row-your-own should still be standard
- G.Irish - 12-11-2006
BLINGMW Wrote:with Honda as cutting edge as they like to be, don't they have something more creative than SMG.... like DSG? Supercar should have super transmission. I vote for at least SMG (because I'm not their target market, doesn't matter if I'd actually prefer a good 'ol manual)
Yeah no one knows exactly what approach they'd take. They could do a dual clutch like Audi's DSG or they could even use Zeroshift from their F1 car (0 time elapsed between shifts). At the very least I'd expect something similar to BMW or Ferrari's system.
My argument for that type of transmission would be that you could left foot brake all the time and you could keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times. No chance of overrevving your engine either.
Apoc Wrote:Can you bounce an SMG off the limiter like you can a manual? If not, can you at least take it all the way to redline? Read: Are they less dummy in a box than the sport mode for auto transmissions?
I know in the full on race modes you can bounce the rev limiter if you so please. Maybe in different modes it will automatically shift for you if you bounce the limiter. Anyone who's familiar with BMW's know for sure?
- Ginger - 12-11-2006
Evan Wrote:IMO, it should be an option replacing the automatic.
6 speed row-your-own should still be standard
Just out of curiousity - why?
The Ferrari of Washington boys found that, even when their standard manual cars were in the hands of their very best drivers that the drivers would pick up better laptimes with the SMG boxes. They went as far as to spend extra time with at least one driver to get him used to the SMG box to use it during races. (The time pick up was from cutting the off brake, on throttle transition by using your left foot exclusively for braking) It's not always about laptimes, of course, do you just like having the clutch there?
- Evan - 12-11-2006
sure, an SMG is faster in an endurance race.
but we are talking about a street car. some people actually find enjoyment in shifting the car yourself, matching downshifts, etc. Myself being one of them.
Let the race teams, rich poseurs, and drag racers option the SMG, the guys who like to shift it themselves can still do so with a proper transmission (and not have to pay for the SMG when it breaks)
- Ginger - 12-11-2006
Evan Wrote:sure, an SMG is faster in an endurance race.
but we are talking about a street car. some people actually find enjoyment in shifting the car yourself, matching downshifts, etc. Myself being one of them.
Let the race teams, rich poseurs, and drag racers option the SMG, the guys who like to shift it themselves can still do so with a proper transmission (and not have to pay for the SMG when it breaks)
Mm.. fair enough. That's a good point, too. RJ's rebuilt regular manual transmissions before, so it can't be that hard... I wouldn't even be sure if anything was broken if I were looking at SMG parts all over the floor.
- BLINGMW - 12-11-2006
asteele2 Wrote:if I were looking at SMG parts all over the floor
it's broken now!
- Apoc - 12-11-2006
So to clarify... is the poll with respect to DD?
- Ginger - 12-11-2006
Apoc Wrote:So to clarify... is the poll with respect to DD?
Yeah, that would change things.
I ride the bike for street-experience enjoyment... I've often thought about how nice it could be to hop in a slushbox daily driver and just not have to do anything except plant my right foot on the floor and go.
- Apoc - 12-11-2006
asteele2 Wrote:I've often thought about how nice it could be to hop in a slushbox daily driver and just not have to do anything except plant my right foot on the floor and go.
That's automatic. :wink:
SMG requires some driver input.
- Ginger - 12-11-2006
Apoc Wrote:asteele2 Wrote:I've often thought about how nice it could be to hop in a slushbox daily driver and just not have to do anything except plant my right foot on the floor and go.
That's automatic. :wink:
SMG requires some driver input.
Yeah, I knows.
I mean to say - I like to do less when I go to work.
- .RJ - 12-11-2006
asteele2 Wrote:I mean to say - I like to do less when I go to work.
You should try not crashing your motorcycle on the way then.