Moore or Pig?

.RJ · 07-19-2004, 09:42 AM

Gun control increases violent crime.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.20876,filter.all/pub_detail.asp">http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.2 ... detail.asp</a>

**JackoliciousLegs** · 07-19-2004, 11:24 AM

Evan Wrote:Jack Im still waiting for you to try to talk your way out of this comment

Quote:Why did terrorists not attack when Clinton was in office?

Alright... we got attacked on a much smaller scale and by different groups. Nothing that the US was warned about as much as 9/11

**G.Irish** · 07-19-2004, 11:29 AM

.RJ Wrote:Gun control increases violent crime.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.20876,filter.all/pub_detail.asp">http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.2 ... detail.asp</a>

Eh I wouldn't use that article to say gun control increases violent crime since there are several variables that affect that number. They even mentioned gang violence as a variable that could havec ontributed to the rise in England. As for Canada, they have so little gun violence in magnitude that I'm sure something like 100 more incidents a year would represent a significant increase.

Really what this article says to me is that gun control is not a panacea for gun violence. I still don't believe convicted felons or children should have guns, and a waiting period is also not a bad idea.

.RJ · 07-19-2004, 11:31 AM

Making guns illegal just increases the number of illegal guns out there.

Education is a much better deterrent at keeping those legal guns where they belong - the number of deaths attributed to legally registered/owned guns every year is very low.

Maengelito · 07-19-2004, 05:11 PM

JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Nothing that the US was warned about as much as 9/11

how do you know?

Feersty · 07-19-2004, 06:33 PM

Bush really knew about 11 Sept. come on now....

Evan · 07-19-2004, 11:51 PM

JackoliciousLegs Wrote:
Evan Wrote:Jack Im still waiting for you to try to talk your way out of this comment

Quote:Why did terrorists not attack when Clinton was in office?
Alright... we got attacked on a much smaller scale and by different groups. Nothing that the US was warned about as much as 9/11

*listens to the sound of Jack backpedaling*

Of course Al Qaeda was really only trying to spread peace and kittens when they bombed the USS Cole, and the WTC the first time.

Of course Mr. Clinton's foreign policy of "do anything you want Jerusalem, we back you 100%" was a huge hit with all the muslims!

Of course the minute the evil republican GW Bush was elected, Al Qaeda put together the WTC attacks in less than 8 months!!

seriously Jack, get a clue.

**JackoliciousLegs** · 07-20-2004, 08:20 AM

Evan Wrote:Of course Mr. Clinton's foreign policy of "do anything you want Jerusalem, we back you 100%" was a huge hit with all the muslims!

:?: i can't tell if you're joking or not. It was much more peaceful in Israel when Clinton was in office... because he was actually doing something. Now, the palestinian government is completely broken down, the "wall/fence" is up and bombs are going off every day.

**Mike** · 07-20-2004, 09:51 AM

Feersty Wrote:Bush really knew about 11 Sept. come on now....

Cite your supposed facts.

Evan · 07-20-2004, 11:44 AM

Jack how are the broken down relations in Israel is Bush's fault?
The Jews have been bulldozing Palestinian homes and businesses, and mounting armored attacks on Palestinians. Palestinians then blow themselves up in crowded nightclubs, and the situation escalates.
Its an issue of Jewish agression and Palestinian counter-agression (or otherway around depending on wether you believe in the chicken or the egg)
Bush has been more critical of Jewish actions, and more supportive of Palestinian's rights than any other president.
Clinton's policy of blindly endorsing all Jewish policies and actions towards the palestinians not surprisingly pissed off the muslims more than anything else.
If anything can be attributed to the trigger of terrorism I think this was it.
Although we are skirting very close to appeasement of the terrorists, which is complete garbage (hello Spain!). When dealing with people like this its impossible to really determine why they hate us, and it is equally impossible to say in retrospect "if we did this differently they wouldnt have bombed us" They very well may hate us no matter what.

Evan · 07-20-2004, 11:52 AM

MichaelJComputer Wrote:
Feersty Wrote:Bush really knew about 11 Sept. come on now....

Cite your supposed facts.

I think he was being sarcastic....?

**JackoliciousLegs** · 07-20-2004, 12:21 PM

Evan Wrote:Bush has been ... more supportive of Palestinian's rights than any other president.

This is one issue I know about in depth from many perspectives, and I'm sorry, but you need to do some research before you toss that around. Just because Bush hasn't supported Israel doesn't make him supportive of Palestinian rights. He's sat on his ass and done nothing. He hasn't tried to clear up the Palestinian leadership issue. He hasn't made any moves regarding terrorism in Israel except by saying "I call on all nations to help us stop these terrorist killers... now watch this drive.[golf]"

**G.Irish** · 07-20-2004, 12:21 PM

If we really want to go back to some root causes of current terrorism we need look no further than our cowboy diplomacy of the 80's. Our government actively funded and trained militants in Afghanistan in their war against the Soviet Union. Later these same guys went on to form the Taliban and become part of Al Qaeda.

Our goal of undermining the USSR did succeed but now we are paying the price for supporting radicals in the first place.

**JackoliciousLegs** · 07-20-2004, 12:39 PM

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.jmujack.com/flash/this_land.swf">http://www.jmujack.com/flash/this_land.swf</a>

enjoy either way

**Mike** · 07-20-2004, 01:49 PM

Evan Wrote:
MichaelJComputer Wrote:
Feersty Wrote:Bush really knew about 11 Sept. come on now....

Cite your supposed facts.
I think he was being sarcastic....?

He's too confusing...

.RJ · 07-20-2004, 01:55 PM

JackoliciousLegs Wrote:He's sat on his ass and done nothing. He hasn't tried to clear up the Palestinian leadership issue. He hasn't made any moves regarding terrorism in Israel except by saying "I call on all nations to help us stop these terrorist killers... now watch this drive.[golf]"

Is that our fight though?

Just tossing out another perspective.

**JackoliciousLegs** · 07-20-2004, 02:47 PM

.RJ Wrote:Is that our fight though?

Is Iraq? That area isn't our fight... it's our responsibility to help promote peace... PEACEFULLY.

**G.Irish** · 07-20-2004, 03:09 PM

JackoliciousLegs Wrote:
.RJ Wrote:Is that our fight though?
Is Iraq? That area isn't our fight... it's our responsibility to help promote peace... PEACEFULLY.

Pacisifism is a great idea, if everyone agrees to play. It only takes one aggressor to necessitate armed conflict.

Peace throughout history has been attained through good foreign relations or by military deterrence. Not saying that in this situation Bush did the right thing but 'promoting peace peacefully' is a rather simplistic and dangerous attitude if that is the sole manner in which you conduct your foreign policy.

**JackoliciousLegs** · 07-20-2004, 03:27 PM

It wasn't Clinton's place to send troops it Il/Pal and he didn't. He tried to establish negotiations. Bush has done ____

.RJ · 07-20-2004, 04:13 PM

JackoliciousLegs Wrote:
.RJ Wrote:Is that our fight though?
Is Iraq? That area isn't our fight... it's our responsibility to help promote peace... PEACEFULLY.

It was our fight 10 years ago, and they Saddam was rash that never really went away. If we ignored him long enough, it would have come back to become a big problem.

After the 9/11 attacks, it became very important to stabilize the region and send a message that we arent taking any more shit from them.

Now, I dont necessarily agree with the course of action that was taken, but it was a hell of alot better than attempting to negotiate something with groups of people that hate the US.

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