The MM Network

[Apoc]

My boss's boss, who would likely be a Director at Amazon and a VP or SVP at any other company, sits at a desk in an open floor plan. Her title is simply Senior Program Manager, too.

Apparently, the VP of Google Maps engineering also sat at a desk nearby until he recently transitioned to a different role.

[JPolen01]

Our CEO had a cubicle for years before we went public. He traveled so frequently he couldn't justify an office. Not sure if he's a man of the people or a weirdo.

[Deceus]

Gotta say I'm pretty happy with my move. The only bad thing I can say is that I do hate open offices as much as I thought I would. At least Capital One has implemented it "correctly" so I can't really complain too much. Just doesn't really hold a candle to having a nice quiet private office. Also not a fan of paying for an entire apartment that I basically just eat dinner and sleep in Mon night - Fri morning but that's on me. Definitely digging the much slower pace. I feel like I'm "just" a software engineer here and I'm not wearing 3 different hats or putting up with a customer who's also my manager. Crazy how much of a difference prioritizing QA/testing and an Agile process makes.

Wait, so which office is it? Nova or Richmond? 

I don't personally know of anyone at all that has their own office in Nova. Only VPs and above.

Richmond, I'd take a cubicle any day over an open office. I get how it's great for managers but it sucks trying to watch a tutorial or read documentation with 2-3 different conversations going on around you and people constantly walking by. Some better headphones will probably solve that issue though. The private office comment was referring to my house lol. I had a really nice setup that I will hopefully get to use once in a while when the whole onboarding period is over. I get that it's pretty much an industry standard now but it's still a drastic change.

[Ryan T]

My wife works for Deloitte and they don’t even have cubicles, just a huge open space with two people to a desk in multiple rows. I couldn’t handle it. I’ve got my own office with 2 extra chairs, a door I can close, two bookshelves and my own mini-fridge. I don’t think I could work any other way now. The way the govt pays for space is by position. Officers are given X number of sq.ft., supervisors get X extra amount of sq.ft., deputy chiefs and chiefs get even bigger offices. Our office allowances are similar. I’m given X amount for desk chairs, desks, etc, those that outrank me get more. Hell, I’m the evidence technician for our office and I get a certain amount of extra space for having the evidence locker in my office. It’s nice to be able to close my door when I need too, etc, and I’m only in my office like 20 hours a week, the rest I’m out in the field.

[HAULN-SS]

I guess it's beginning. Just got my first email from a recruiter for Amazon HQ2. I have almost no desire to work there but I might chat them up anyway just to see what kind of packages they are offering. The job itself is some kind of Alexa related stuff.

[G.Irish]

Well, a senior engineer can easily make close to $300k per year in total compensation with Amazon sooo...

Look at Amazon SDE III Level 6:

https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Microsoft/Amazon/Google/

[Apoc]

That comp is likely based on Amazon's stock price overachieving for years. Not saying it's not possible, but an L6 SDE's target comp is not that high.

For reference, I made about $100k more per year than my target comp in 2017 and 2018 due to the stock.

[Evan]

Yeah I wouldn't count on that stock compensation value (or bonus) continuing forever. Stock also takes years to fully vest so its not like you can pay your mortgage with it.
Sooner or later the bubble is going to either pop or deflate and things will come down to (or closer to) earth for Silicon Valley.

[G.Irish]

Yeah I mean, that route is not without risk. Especially since Amazon heavily backloads their vesting schedule (5% in year 1, 15% in year 2, then 40%, and 40%). Still, as I understand it, they offset some of that with a big year 1 and 2 signing bonus.

So going to Amazon you may not get a bump in base salary, or even go backwards a bit in base salary, but you may still be getting a huge raise when total comp comes in. Downside is that some of the other benefits are lower than average (401k match, 2 weeks of PTO in year 1, etc.).

I already work in Crystal City so I'll give it a look either way.

[Apoc]

There's a pretty big cliff four years after your start or your last promotion (whichever comes later), especially in cases where the stock outperforms.

I took a "pay cut" to move to Google, if you base it off the extraordinary years I had before I left. If I assumed a more reasonable 15% YoY stock gain, my 2019 total comp is 8% higher at Google and 55% higher in 2020. The 2020 difference isn't because my comp at Google jumps, but because my comp at Amazon was set to come back into line with target. That said, I got nothing but love for what AMZN did for my finances and encourage you to seek it out.

Note Amazon caps base pay at $160k for the whole company. Everything on top of that is RSU that vest twice a year. Some people cannot get over that barrier.

[Jake]

I'm super-duper happy at Slalom, but if Amazon wants to pay me a lot more and retain my current work/life balance/quality of life then I'd consider it.

[.RJ]

and retain my current work/life balance/quality of life

Good luck, with Amazon on the east coast.  Their herndon office is a shit show.

[HAULN-SS]

Hmm. Didn't know about the caps and RSU in lieu of pay. That's pretty annoying. That cap is also way too low if they want senior engineers...I don't think stock with the risk baggage will be enough to entice people, at least not from gov. Cleared sectors which have minimal risk associated. An occasional shutdown threat is fine compared to potentially losing a quarter of my pay on a stock dive.

[Apoc]

Hmm. Didn't know about the caps and RSU in lieu of pay. That's pretty annoying. That cap is also way too low if they want senior engineers...I don't think stock with the risk baggage will be enough to entice people, at least not from gov. Cleared sectors which have minimal risk associated. An occasional shutdown threat is fine compared to potentially losing a quarter of my pay on a stock dive.

Their hiring suggests there are engineers that don't think like you. That base cap is true for everyone in the company, including Directors, VPs, and SVPs. It's a mind shift, but they've got hundreds/thousands of senior level folks who are comped 70-90% in RSU.

I always sold all my RSU as soon as they vested, so my long term risk was minimal. You get RSU grants every year, so it's a self-correcting system that brings you back up to target if you fall below. You might make less than target in a given year if the stock tanks, but you've also got the upside people have been experiencing the last few years. It's moderate risk with big possible upside... which .gov folks may be averse to, but it could cost them. FWIW, I just had drinks with a friend last night who's a Deputy Director of a well known - he wants to leave .gov after 10 years because it's been costing him lifetime earnings.

My percent comp as RSU the last four years at Amazon: 49.0%, 48.3%, 51.5%, 50.5%

If anyone wants to talk real numbers, give me a shout privately.

[Jake]

and retain my current work/life balance/quality of life

Good luck, with Amazon on the east coast.  Their herndon office is a shit show.

Yeah, so I've heard. I'd have to be on the perfect team with the perfect leadership to retain what I have now.

[Senor_Taylor]

So, HR screen and phone interview with VP or Product went well. He was very candid and said he likes me a lot. Apparently none of their PMs have technical backgrounds so I'm the first of a wave of technical PMs if hired. Setting up the final interview soon. It's really freaky thinking about changing my life up again without knowing how it'll be. I guess I'll worry about that if/when they extend an offer.

[davej]

So, HR screen and phone interview with VP or Product went well. He was very candid and said he likes me a lot. Apparently none of their PMs have technical backgrounds so I'm the first of a wave of technical PMs if hired. Setting up the final interview soon. It's really freaky thinking about changing my life up again without knowing how it'll be. I guess I'll worry about that if/when they extend an offer.

Is this the joint in ATL?

[Senor_Taylor]

So, HR screen and phone interview with VP or Product went well. He was very candid and said he likes me a lot. Apparently none of their PMs have technical backgrounds so I'm the first of a wave of technical PMs if hired. Setting up the final interview soon. It's really freaky thinking about changing my life up again without knowing how it'll be. I guess I'll worry about that if/when they extend an offer.

Is this the joint in ATL?

Nope. The ATL job is a sure thing if I want it. No interview required.

[Senor_Taylor]

How do y'all research companies before interviewing? I was told I need to know a good bit about the company before coming on site Monday. I'll try to glean as much as I can from their marketing site.

[Kaan]

How do y'all research companies before interviewing? I was told I need to know a good bit about the company before coming on site Monday. I'll try to glean as much as I can from their marketing site.

website, google, linkedin, etc. FYI I hate when they want me to know about the company.