Preventing school shootings

[ScottyB]

having tighter gun laws and making it more difficult to obtain guns wont really stop pyschopaths that want to kill people. sure, it might weed out some of the borderline crazies, but it also limits those with legitimate reasons and responsible gun owners which is probably like 99% of them.

What do the other 99% of them do? Scott mentioned that we drive cars fast and waste gas. imo, that hardly equates with practicing to use a gun in a situation like VT's.

the point i was trying to get across was exactly what Rex ended up adding nice viauals to

Rex - there has to be an applicable cat picture for this situation

[Beej]

uhh..in 1995 britain installed gun bans.

I'm pulling all my info off uk gov websites.



Sharp objects are taking over - the only crimes that are going down, according to the governments own stats, are domestic incidents. Strangers killing Strangers has remained virtually unchanged in 12 years.

And concerning Gun Crimes:

"Firearms (including air weapons) were reported to have been used in 22,789 recorded crimes in 2004/05. This is 5% down on the previous year, and the first fall since 1997. "

Since 1997! And it was only 5%, so, basically, unchanged since 1997, since It was clearly going up the last 10 years.

And one more quote from the site:

The overall fall masks a big increase in imitation weapon offences, up 55%

So yeah - if that doesnt say that people will find a way to hurt each other, I don't know what will.

I don't have time to read the whole report now, but I will tonight.

I think it's unfair that you left out the following sentence:

Between 1995 and 2004/05 British Crime Survey (BCS) violent crime has fallen by 43%

Disclaimer: the above has nothing to do with gun-specific crimes. The report is a pain in the ass to read (firearms different from air weapons, wtf are imitation weapons, etc...just give me some goddamn easy to read numbers) and I don't want to say anything else until I read the whole thing.

[HAULN-SS]

Ok - I posted the source for you guys to read, beacuse it has a lot of charts and such - this is probably the most important thing to read...as it is one of the more long term stats on the page.

The number of firearm crimes involving any type of injury has more than doubled in the six years to 2004/05: from 2,378 to 5,358. The largest rise was seen in crimes involving non-air weapons.


It's kind of confusing hte way they have it - but this falls under gun crimes, so non-air weapons implies traditional firearms.

[Kaan]

The idea that "I need a gun to feel safe" on a college campus, to me, is a "society of fear" way of thinking. I find that a lot of people fear the worst in the safest of conditions. We don't have rapists and murderers running around campus, and if we did, I think our police force is capable enough to deal with any situation.

no one is saying YOU have to carry a gun... no one is saying "i need a gun to feel safe"... what they are saying is if more people exersized their right to carry it might detur people from acting out.

While i worked for the police department at JMU, we had "peepers" escalating their behaviour to touching... armed locals breaking into cars... group vs one person fights... "men" beating their girlfriends all over campus... a drive by no less than 2 blocks off campus where 3 people died. Just because you didnt read it in the breeze didnt mean it didnt happen. Any university is going to attempt to keep their name as clean as possible.

and always remember... JMU is dangerously close to the western state mental hospital. They have escapes their almost weekly! at least they used to. [/quote]

[CaptainHenreh]

Rex - there has to be an applicable cat picture for this situation

I dunno, man. A tense, gun control thread in the wake of a horrible tragedy?
I'd have to say:



What I really want to do is:

[bimmerboodle]

The idea that "I need a gun to feel safe" on a college campus, to me, is a "society of fear" way of thinking. I find that a lot of people fear the worst in the safest of conditions. We don't have rapists and murderers running around campus, and if we did, I think our police force is capable enough to deal with any situation.

Uhhh, there are rapes on campuses, there are murders on campuses. The police have not stopped them...

Some of the ideas presented seem to be missing the point. There is really nothing to prevent someone on a campus to carry a gun other than some words on paper. When has that ever prevented anything. The law abiding choose to follow the rule and are vulnerable to those who don't abide. see how that works? Kaan's examples of the restrictions placed on permitted individuals makes it more difficult for that person to be in a position to defend them self or even others.

There are ass loads of "gun control" laws already on the books...see words on paper above.

What is not generally known is that ordinary citizens use firearms to PREVENT crimes about 2 MILLION times a year.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107274,00.html

If you don't like FOX...then google John Lott

[CaptainHenreh]

[Maengelito]

having tighter gun laws and making it more difficult to obtain guns wont really stop pyschopaths that want to kill people. sure, it might weed out some of the borderline crazies, but it also limits those with legitimate reasons and responsible gun owners which is probably like 99% of them.

What do the other 99% of them do? Scott mentioned that we drive cars fast and waste gas. imo, that hardly equates with practicing to use a gun in a situation like VT's.

well, i dont own a gun so i cant say from personal experience. however, i know several people that own guns and it seems a lot of MMers own guns as well. none of them go around killing people (as far as i know) and probably like to shoot for sport, hunt, or just enjoy them like collecting baseball cards. i'm not sure what you're eluding to with the 'driving cars fast' to practicing using a gun reference though.

[Maengelito]

I missed a lot. Kaan, I think the one argument I have for you is, why should I have to carry a gun to feel safe. I know how to wedge a door. More likely, I'm not afraid to jump out of a window.

martial law. unless someone knows where someone else is at all times of the day doing exactly what they say they're doing, then thats really the only way. if you truly feel threatened where you live, you need to move jack. i'm sure chicago has many relatively safe areas in and around it. but if a psycho wants to inflict harm and isnt afraid to die while doing it, there isnt much you can do to stop them

[ScottyB]

but if a psycho wants to inflict harm and isnt afraid to die while doing it, there isnt much you can do to stop them

why i'm considering owning a gun for home security someday, with proper training of course. yeah, it sucks guns fall into the wrong hands but as long as they do i will fight fire with fire and protect my family if someone tries to break in and come into my home.

the thing is, i understand where Jack is coming from....i really do. unfortunately unless you melt down every single gun ever made and somehow keep people from making more, the risk of being shot is always there. not to mention other weapons that could be used in place of a gun. people will find a way to do their terrible things, for neither rhyme or reason.

[Jeff]

Gun control = being able to hit your target.

[Maengelito]

no one is saying YOU have to carry a gun... no one is saying "i need a gun to feel safe"... what they are saying is if more people exersized their right to carry it might detur people from acting out.

this is why i think beating the shit out of someone should be okay under certain circumstances. nowadays, you cant whoop someone's ass without getting in trouble, but there are plenty of times when people need to get their ass beat to straighten them out. well, i cant punch this kid in the face at school who is annoying to everyone. if i could punch him, i gaurantee he would not be so annoying, but if i do, i'll get in trouble. you guys get the idea.

[Hunter]

I really don't like the argument that if more people were carrying guns, criminals would be less likely to commit crimes due to fear of guns being used against them.

Doesn't anyone think that if in any dangerous situation where the "bad guy" has a gun, and thinks you have a gun, he will be much more likely to shoot you. I'd like to see statistics on crimes (muggings, carjackings, assault, etc.) in which nobody involved had a gun, one person involved had a gun, and when two or more people involved had a gun.

I'm pretty sure that in situations where both people in a conflict have a gun, it's much more likely that someone will end up dead instead of only missing their wallet.

[CaptainHenreh]

I'd like to see statistics on crimes (muggings, carjackings, assault, etc.) in which nobody involved had a gun, one person involved had a gun, and when two or more people involved had a gun.

You'll never find them. Even the estimates of how many crimes are deterred by conceal carry type people are just wild guesses. We know it does happen, but let's say you were packing heat, and a guy comes up to you with a knife, and says "Give me all your money!" And you whip out your piece and he takes off...what are you going to tell the cops? You going to call 911 and say "Hey, I someone just tried to mug me and they ran off."? No, of course you're not. You're gonna thank God you were packing that day and you're going to go home and be glad to be alive.

[bimmerboodle]

I really don't like the argument that if more people were carrying guns, criminals would be less likely to commit crimes due to fear of guns being used against them.

You don't have to like an argument for it to be valid.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[JackoliciousLegs]

Goodspeed: I don't think any of us legal owners are complaining about having to wait another week.

It is rather annoying to me that I have to wait 2 weeks to buy the 9mm Makarov I am going to get next week

Fooled me.

[bimmerboodle]

It is rather annoying to me that I have to wait 2 weeks to buy the 9mm Makarov I am going to get next week

Why do you have to wait 2 weeks? You will like the Mak. I have one. It is pretty accurate for what it is, but the magazine release takes a little getting used to. Also buy several extra magazines, and a magazine loader. Also get the rubber replacement grip for it, makes a world of difference.

[HAULN-SS]

Look who said that - and I'm quite sure that minor annoyance isn't going to make him go out and buy one black market.

[CaptainHenreh]

Goodspeed: I don't think any of us legal owners are complaining about having to wait another week.

It is rather annoying to me that I have to wait 2 weeks to buy the 9mm Makarov I am going to get next week

Fooled me.

C'mon Jack, you're picking the low hanging fruit. Step up, man!

[Jeff]

Look who said that.

Whats that supposed to mean half-wit? :roll: