New (to me) vehicle suggestions

[Steve85]

I'm sure it's a great driving car, but that interior design is seriously lacking for a car at that level.

[.RJ]

Did you buy a corvette yet?

[WRXtranceformed]

Interestingly, browsing the ATS section of the Cadillac forums I found a guy who just traded in his CTS-V as a daily driver for a 2.0T premium ATS with performance package. He says it is worlds better. I sent him a note to get his candid feedback on his daily driving experience with both. The comments he made in his original post that really stood out to me:

Ultimately the V is a very fun vehicle in theory, but in practice I found myself unsatisfied being unable to really work the car anywhere on a daily basis.

The only real compromise I made was with the auto, but in premium trim with FE3 suspension backing, I found the entire experience just a couple notches higher than the one I had in the 6L90E V, so I have no regrets.

I realize everyone is different but in the back of my head that is one nagging thought I have had about a potential V purchase. There is no way I would really be able to open that car up around here. The same could be said I guess for a tuned ATS, but at the end of the day I would probably get the same enjoyment out of an ATS performance wise, more enjoyment interior wise and much better day to day fuel efficiency with the 2.0T

[ScottyB]

There is no way I would really be able to open that car up around here.

the catch i see with that is...how can you do that will really any car over 3 or 400hp, anywhere other than the middle of Montana at midnight on a public road? its a bit of an argument against a vette as well unless you intend to track it.

[WRXtranceformed]

That is a good point. What I do like about the Corvette is that I can find it in a drop top.

[ViPER1313]

How about a 911 / Cayman?

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[JustinG]

Because Porsche maintenance costs ruin the deal.

Jon Felton was considering one, if you want a better answer hit him up.

[ViPER1313]

10g buys a lot of maintenance hrug:

[WRXtranceformed]

Yeah no my buddy had that same car and he traded it in on a new A5. it was a PITA to maintain.

[.RJ]

10g buys a lot of maintenance hrug:

Not if the motor pops.

[ViPER1313]

I thought the only real weak part of those motors was the IMS bearing failures - figure $3g to have it replaced if it worries you. :dunno:

[ViPER1313]

Another thought... Save 15k and get one of these:

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[G.Irish]

Yeah no my buddy had that same car and he traded it in on a new A5. it was a PITA to maintain.

He traded a Cayman in on an Audi A5? Does your friend also like wearing a ball gag while a woman with stilletos stomps on his balls? What went wrong with his Cayman?

The IMS bearing is not an issue on the Cayman, only 996 911's. Supposedly it's only a concern on the non-Turbo cars. With the Cayman the big problem you'll have with 06-08's is that they have trouble with oil starvation at high g-loads. If you're track at a fast pace you could run into that.

A 996 911 Turbo is in your price range, but I still think the ATS, E9x M3 or CTS-V would be better choices based on your requirements.

[WRXtranceformed]

Now that goat is back on track and I had actually considered one. The one thing that kept me away: it is a Pontiac. If you have any way to sell me off of that mentality (ie Holden = Australia) I would love to hear it.

That Porsche looked cool but it was a piece. I don't know if it was his fault but it sounded bad and never really ran right. The A5 2.0T is WAY better than his Porsche as a daily driver imo

[ViPER1313]

Does the badge cause you issues with the country club valet or something? It's a GM... You can still get parts for them. It's a lot of CTSV at a lower price point. It will most likely be a collectors car in the future. Every car rag loved the thing. 6.0 V8, IRS, good looks - I fail to see the issue.

[ViPER1313]

How about getting a brand new one - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.autotrader.com/ATCarID/AT-14CE3F81?LNX=IOSEMLVDPDS&dealer_id=69741&car_id=349060993">http://www.autotrader.com/ATCarID/AT-14 ... =349060993</a><!-- m -->

[WRXtranceformed]

I am not worried as much about the badge as I am buying a car from a company that doesn't exist anymore. I realize the parent company is still around but that always made me nervous. I have always liked the look of that car....hrmmm....maybe this one gets thrown in the mix!!

[WRXtranceformed]

Wow this is why I love enthusiast forums, you get so much good information. Two people who switched from 3rd gen V's to ATS's chimed in:

Original Poster:

I almost started to do a comparison in depth given I've been wanting to stretch the writing muscles lately, however, I concluded that there are already dozens of reviews outlining each cars strengths and weaknesses.
I'll just run through the highlights for you and try to keep on topic.

If I could say just one thing about the Ats it would be that it feels 500lbs lighter than it is, which is saying a lot given that the c4 vette I have actually is 3-400lbs lighter .

Going into brief detail of what I've observed;
the fe3 suspension has excellent duality of being a daily driver but a track attack monster at the flick of a switch; almost as well as the V. The 2.0t is a fine engine ,even with half of the power in the v I've yet to find myself wanting for more . It's exceptionally balanced to this platform, I just wish it didn't sound so truly god awful(I haven't heard a decent D/I 4 cylinder in it's defense), maybe some mods down the road will help, I'm not sure. The interior alone was worth the switch for me, I could drone ons for paragraphs about the interior, the seats that are supportive but comfortable(the V's recaros were supportive, but hard as granite, and forget about the standard seats, they might as well not exist) and the headliner; that's black! Space even for my 6'2" tall 230lb frame is adequate, I'm just a few figures shy of being to small for a compact, but the ats did not leave me tired after the 6 hour trip today or in want for more room,well maybe I did get pretty tired on the final stretch back home, I blame insufficient amounts of coffee for waking up @ 4AM.

Ultimately, I found the Ats to be a better car to me for many reasons, and one of the top ones is because the v, with all of it's power was wasted on public roads. The Ats is better in ways that mattered to me, it's more fun to drive(given you're driving closer to the limit of the car) and with some tasteful mods I can easily see holding onto the Ats for years to come.

Deciding between these two you need to ask yourself what kind of car guy you are.

Turns out, I'm not the muscle car 'power train only please' buyer I thought I was. The cts-v is a no nonsense road racer for people that want a 500+ hp car with 4 doors. I might could see it being a blast to own if I suddenly made another 10-15k in income to support modifying, going to track days, blowing through tires every 6 months and so on, but that's not going to happen. Trying to drive that much car 95% of the time on a small autocross course or on public roads is just plain unsatisfying. It's also just plain big and heavy. The cts-v handles well and goes fast as if to defy physics or gravity.

The ATS goes and handles fast because it's not big nor heavy. That makes for a much nicer drive day to day, because the reality is, most of us don't have fantastic driving roads within easy grasp.

If I had once regret, it might be that I didn't wait for the ATS-V, I've found that I'm more in love with the car's package so far than the actual trim or powertrain . I suspect that while the 2.0T is very nice, that I may have missed what could be the perfect balance of good platform and great powertrain in the V due next year. The 2.0T I'm sure will be the better autocross car, the better commuter and better 'tuners' car, so I have mixed feelings on the subject. I'm sure I won't have to wait long however. In the end, I think I might still stick with the 2.0T, by this time next year a tune, exhaust and other goodies could make a lot of difference.

Second Poster:

I also made the same switch 4 1/2 months ago. The V was a very special car, to be sure, and did daily driver duty quite well. The reality is that the ATS is a better car overall to live with in real life! The V had virtually unlimited power, which I could never unleash on public roads, and I could never floor it. I rarely need full power in the ATS, either, but when called for it has been more than adequate, especially when on boost. A little less turbo lag would be nice, and I am considering a tune, but even stock it's been fine for the street.

I purchased my V more for the handling, brakes, and steering than for the 556 hp. The ATS competes quite well with the V in this respect. The V had an unbelievable combination of ride and handling, and the ATS Premium is very close. The V had a very slightly more precise feel and a tiny bit more grip, but I bet that if I put equally good tires on the ATS it might be just as good. I am considering the sway bar link modification too. The stock Bridgestone run flats are really better than I thought they'd be. The ride in Tour is pretty similar, though quite a bit stiffer in Sport than the V. It's stiff enough to be avoided on all but smooth streets, which are hard to come by where I live. The brakes are nearly as good on the ATS as the V, too. Where the ATS truly excels is in direction changes. Due to weighing 8-900 pounds less, there is much less inertia. Turn-in is RIGHT NOW. Along with the smaller size, it makes maneuverability in traffic much easier. While it doesn't look like it, visibility is better than with the V, too. I always had issues with the blind spots in the V, but none with the ATS, surprisingly. It all makes the ATS a much better city car, and I do live in the city.

Obvious other pros for the ATS include much better gas mileage, and thusly much better range. I would get 200-250 miles per tankful in the V, unless on a long trip, and the ATS is easily achieving 350-400 miles. No range anxiety at all! The interior materials are nicer and more durable on the ATS, and it's been rattle free. I do miss the soft padding on the dash and door tops of the CTS, but the piano black trim is WAY more durable than the V's, which scratches if you just look at it. I loved the Recaros in the V, but the sport seats seem to be equally comfortable and easier to adjust for more people, and are a lot easier to get in and out of. I also like the tech, overall, though I miss some of the simplicity of the older systems in the V.

There are some trade-offs, of course. I miss some of the options like the cooled seats, powered steering wheel adjustment, head light washers, and even the Ultra-View roof. The stereo in the ATS is pretty good, and has some nice features, but the sound was overall a bit better in the CTS, especially in the deep bass. The car isn't as roomy, and three in the back would be uncomfortable, where it was better in the V for sure. The V certainly has a bigger trunk, but the ATS has a split folding back seat if necessary, as long as you aren't traveling with four people (not available in the V sedan). The ATS won't get the respect of the V, either, if that really matters. My V used to get parked out front by the valets all the time, but the ATS hasn't had that compliment once.

Overall, I'm very happy with this car. Will I look at the ATS-V when it comes out? Sure, but I'm happier with this car overall than I was with my CTS FE3 in 2008. The V was a huge leap in excellence over that car. It will be harder to do that with the ATS-V, IMHO. Oh, and the ATS was only 2/3 the price of the V, and $5-6k cheaper than the equivalent 3 series, which I didn't like as much anyway. And so far, totally reliable, too. Seems like a keeper.

The ATS-V argument isn't a bad one, although that car brand new will be well out of my price range. One of my big gripes about my current car is how small the trunk is, so if the ATS trunk is even smaller that might also be an issue. The ATS in general though sounds like a much better daily driver due to its nimbleness, gas mileage and plenty of usable power. I think I just need to test drive both

Edit: I just noticed this quote that really stood out too and is perfectly applicable to me:

Sure, but I'm happier with this car overall than I was with my CTS FE3 in 2008. The V was a huge leap in excellence over that car. It will be harder to do that with the ATS-V, IMHO.

[ScottyB]

so, completely out of nowhere, but have you thought about the Genesis R-Spec? 430hp V8, mid 30's buy-in with their ever increasing quality and insane warranty.

only problem is that its a hyundai. but, just sayin...its a lot of car.

[CaptainHenreh]

so, completely out of nowhere, but have you thought about the Genesis R-Spec? 430hp V8, mid 30's buy-in with their ever increasing quality and insane warranty.

only problem is that its a hyundai. but, just sayin...its a lot of car.

Not really out of nowhere, Lee and I hashed that out over ribs. Looks good, decent power...still a hyundai.