Toyota Power

[Evan]

the only thing more lame than racing in a straight line is bench racing on the internet.

[G.Irish]

You'll have to point out to me where I said they couldn't outperform cars.
I simply stated they couldn't outperform ALL cars, and therefore are not the elite some people try to make them out to be.

List all of the trophies you want. It does not change the fact that they don't make a performance car you can buy, and then take to the track (or off road) and outperform cars that cost the same or less.

See this all started out because the original post was trying to poke at Honda and then went on to imply Honda engineering doesn't match up to Toyota. Fine, I went on to give multiple examples of why this is not true. Then for some reason you asked "How does Toyota lose big in motorsports to Honda" and went on to refer to IDRC results. Ok, worldwide race results were the answer. Then you go on to say you wouldn't buy any Honda street car based on performance. That's perfectly fine but then you start to say they don't outperform other cars for the money, implying that the aformentioned cannot hang. In the case of the NSX there are maybe 4 or 5 cars that are faster for the money, in the case of the S2000 you're really only talking about 2 cars.

So it comes down to these two cars, was it really necessary to do all that typing just to say you'd rather have an Evo or STi? Had you just said that in the first place I would have said, "Yeah, they're great cars."

You've changed the subject twice just to try to be right about whatever it is you said but really there was no need for it. Just about everyone here has their own preference for performance. I'm not going to jump in anyone else's thread to say why I wouldn't choose their type of car unless someone asks. Why you went through such lengths to just say you'd rather have an Evo or STi is beyond me.

[KPWSerpiente]

Then for some reason you asked "How does Toyota lose big in motorsports to Honda"

For some reason? You said they did. And your examples covered a style of racing Toyota has only been involved in for 3 years. It was a poor example of their domination on certain tracks.

You've changed the subject twice just to try to be right about whatever it is you said but really there was no need for it.

I didn't change the subject. The original thread starter stated that if Honda made another R, everyone would buy it. So I just pointed out that there is nothing they are making now that I would buy (I stated my reason why) and this was just to go against his idea that everyone would be interested in a new Type R. It had nothing to do with what I had said earlier...you can plainly see that if you go back and read.

Why you went through such lengths to just say you'd rather have an Evo or STi is beyond me.

You brought them into the conversation, not me! I simply agreed they would out perform an S2000. Yes I would roll an Evo8, but I would roll an S2000 before an STi.

I'm done with the thread. I formed an arguement that there is no current Honda production car that outperforms all other cars of a similar price.

The only thing close to evidence against that is the fact that AutoX B Stock is dominated by Honda S2000's (I checked myself because I didn't believe it).

-T

[G.Irish]

Then for some reason you asked "How does Toyota lose big in motorsports to Honda"

For some reason? You said they did. And your examples covered a style of racing Toyota has only been involved in for 3 years. It was a poor example of their domination on certain tracks.

Domination on certain tracks? I'll assume that was a bad choice of words. Either way the point is that Honda has a lot more racing heritage than Toyota and they have won at higher levels of competition.

I didn't change the subject. The original thread starter stated that if Honda made another R, everyone would buy it. So I just pointed out that there is nothing they are making now that I would buy (I stated my reason why) and this was just to go against his idea that everyone would be interested in a new Type R. It had nothing to do with what I had said earlier...you can plainly see that if you go back and read.

Ok, so why did you even bring the S2000 or NSX into it? If it was about the DC5R then you should've talked about the DC5R. Again, if you don't want to buy a certain brand, good for you, buy what you like. I just don't see why you dragged other cars into it just to say you wouldn't buy them. I wouldn't buy the current Mitsubishi Eclipse. Is that relevant? No. That's why I didn't bring it up. You wouldn't buy the S2000 or NSX. Is that relevant? Not really. But hey its a discussion forum and I like to discuss things.

I'm done with the thread. I formed an arguement that there is no current Honda production car that outperforms all other cars of a similar price.

Well there is only 1 car that can beat every other car for the same money or less for any given price segment. So there you have it. We have come to the conclusion that Honda does not make anything that beats every other car in the same price range or less. Lets see who else belongs to this elite club. BMW, Lamborghini, Maserati, Lotus, Mercedes-Benz, Mazda, Nissan, Infiniti, Toyota...and everyone else. Should we start a new thread to talk about why we wouldn't buy any cars from these other manufacturers from a performance standpoint?

There are lots of cars in lots of segments that perform similarly. The choice eventually comes down to what things you value in a car. If you want the balls out fastest car for whatever price range you can afford then buy that. If you look at the things that way your list will look pretty much like this (from cheapest to most expensive):

Ford Mustang
STi/Evo
Vette
Viper
Porsche GT3
Ford GT
Ferrari Enzo

If other things matter to you such as driving feel, reliability, quality, value, style, ergonomics, etc. then you wouldn't bother jumping into a thread just to say that any one manufacturer doesn't make a car that beats every other car for the same money or less. My final point is that there is more to a car (even a performance car) than simply numbers. Only in racing is there only one number that matters above all else.

[Team]

Probably right. What would get if you sold it?

hopefully a Scooby

[G.Irish]

Probably right. What would get if you sold it?

hopefully a Scooby

Once you boost there's no going back...

[Dave]

Probably right. What would get if you sold it?

hopefully a Scooby

Once you boost there's no going back...

I'll second that. No matter how much pain its caused me, it's gonna be hard to say goodbye to the boosted pig.