Project 6.0L Sedan

[D_Eclipse9916]

Yeah I very briefly looked at rx7s after prodding from Jon. A lot more complicated and lots of issues. Couldn't get it done under 18k. M3 is easy since it retains all stock suspension and the stock rear diff holds around 600rwhp so no figuring out how to hold power.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Reason #1,231,456,476,567 why I love having a pickup now, and should have bought one a long time ago. I have transported as many motors in the truck as the months that I've owned the truck.

Picked up the LS1 yesterday morning. As stated it comes with harness/ecu/manifold/accessories and everything. Could use a little clean-up and probably a tune-up. Hopefully if Navin/Jake can drop off my engine hoist/stand tonight I Can get it out of the back of my truck, and onto a stand in the garage.

[Jake]

So this is fairly "drop in" aside from the mounting kit that you need to mate it with the E36, right? The motor itself seems to be a complete package. Very very cool.

Let me see what time I get out of work tonight - I can fit the stand but not the hoist in the Focus.

[.RJ]

So.... how is the ECU/wiring/etc handled? Does everything else work normally? I assume you start with an OBD-1 car? What about A/C?

[D_Eclipse9916]

So.... how is the ECU/wiring/etc handled? Does everything else work normally? I assume you start with an OBD-1 car? What about A/C?

It is basically a bolt on kit <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://sambergperformance.com/product/bmw-e36-mounting-kit/">http://sambergperformance.com/product/b ... nting-kit/</a><!-- m --> No hammering of firewalls, cutting up sheetmetal, welding. Bolt-on.

The driveshaft will need to be sent out to be shortened, and I will have to extend some of the ABS lines to move it so I can get it out of the way heat out of the headers.

As for wiring. It is a hybrid of BMW/GM wiring in the car.

Very little BMW engine side harness is used. I mean we are talking a couple relays and the main power wire. The GM ECU drives the engine/trans, and since OBD2 is universal, you just move on wire in the OBD2 port, and you have fully functional OBD2 diagnostics. The E36 m3 luckily comes with fully independent ABS/brakes/steering in that it doesn't need to communicate with the BMW ECU (solving any issues with having ABS, another RX7 issue, most RX7 guys go non-abs).

The A/C actually works pretty easily with two wires, and will be having 2 custom A/c lines made to adapt the GM compressor to the BMW condensor/drier.

As for gauges, you are using the stock BMW tank/pump assembly/level senders, so gas gauge is good to go. Speed sensor is in the differential, which you are not replacing, so Speedo works. RPMs are literally just a tune on the stock GM ECU. Stock coolant level sender is used so no problem. Oil level/pressure uses adapters and threads into the LS1.

Cruise control remains the same, and is independent of the BMW ecu, so you just have to shorten the cruise line, and it works.

Shifter ends up being in roughly the correct place. Just slightly 1/2 inch back. So people just bend the shifter (along with going short shifter), and it works.

You do have to do a "custom" power steering line. (simply move the high pressure hose from a straight fitting to banjos).
All accessories are GM based, A/C, power steering, alternator, starter. So no problems.

One of the issues solved with the LS1 vs. LS2/3/6/7, is the throttle cable is an actual cable, not drive by wire. Making pedal swap not neccessary for the throttle pedal.

Clutch line is just a remote bleed clutch line that is common to many LS motors.

[CaptainHenreh]

So going with the LS1 now, you should actually have a slight weight savings overall, right?

Are you doing any cam/engine seals/refresh/hi-cap oil pan/etc "while you're in there"?

[Jake]

This sounds... remarkably simple to drop in. I owe you some wrench time, so let me know a good weekend to start pulling/swapping

[D_Eclipse9916]

So going with the LS1 now, you should actually have a slight weight savings overall, right?

Are you doing any cam/engine seals/refresh/hi-cap oil pan/etc "while you're in there"?

Unfortunately, that is a bit of a misconception thrown out by swap enthusiasts. WHile the LS1 is all aluminum compared to the iron-blocked S52, the weight of the extra cylinders and the tougher T56 6-speed transmission means that I will be gaining about 50lbs in total. Lighter than the spare tire/jack combo in the trunk. Heck, the weight savings of going from my power/heated vaders at 90lbs a piece (no bullshit, tought to beleive I know) to aftermarket seats will more than offset the 50lbs.

I will be pulling apart it down the bare long-block, and then pulling the oil pan/valve covers. Depending on the condition, I may replace main bearings/rod bearings/lifters. Hopefully will not be needed.

Power mods is tough. In order to get to my goal of 400-430rwhp, I would need to:
1. DIY port throttle body (free)
2. LS6 intake manifold (~300)
3. Cam/springs/reatiners/timing chain (~600) 224/228-581/588 114 LSA for driveability, smog, power under the curve
4. Tune (~200-400)

I could kncok out the LS6 intake manifold and go for a slightly more aggressive cam, but I would like more power under the curve and driveability, while still making my goals.

The stock oil pan will be used since it is needed to fit the motor. I am trying to look up a few mods/baffles as it will probably be autocrossed and maybe TTed once or twice.

[CaptainHenreh]

So the increased weight is coming from the Tremec vs the 5 speed getrag?

[D_Eclipse9916]

So the increased weight is coming from the Tremec vs the 5 speed getrag?

5-speed ZF, getrag is the 325i transmission, but yes part of the weight.

The big issues is getting a reliable number from people, seeing as I have never weighed one myself.

With accessories/flywheel/ac compressor/fully dressed etc. An S52 with the ZF weighs between 520-575lbs. LS1/t56 is between 590/620lbs

[Steve85]

How to wire LS into BMW

That's a lot more straight forward than I expected. I had the same "ease" with the early C4 where the engine controls were 99% stand alone. Later cars are a mess with ECMs talking to BCMs which I kind of expected the BMW to have issues with.
Good to hear!

BTW, I like this dive right in approach much better than the slow roll...

Does it matter what accessories (Camaro vs Corvette) for fitment? I assume since you mentioned cable TB this is out of a F-body.

[D_Eclipse9916]

How to wire LS into BMW

That's a lot more straight forward than I expected. I had the same "ease" with the early C4 where the engine controls were 99% stand alone. Later cars are a mess with ECMs talking to BCMs which I kind of expected the BMW to have issues with.
Good to hear!

BTW, I like this dive right in approach much better than the slow roll...

Does it matter what accessories (Camaro vs Corvette) for fitment? I assume since you mentioned cable TB this is out of a F-body.

Yup, that is why I jumped when I saw this F-body LS1. You need LS1 F-body front end accessories, as well as the F-body Oil pan. The GTO/ls2/ls3 pans will not fit with some kits, it is kind of up in the air. This is the 100% fit solution.

Yeah, the E46 M3 has can-bus which is a nightmare for getting around the ECU. The only situation like that is the key/security EWS. However, since I am no longer using a BMW ECU, it will not be a problem. (and an aftermarket tune for the GM ECU).

BTW- I would love your help/general knowledge on anything LS related. I really am a newbie to these motors/pushrod motors. I know general engine building, and know roughly how to do everything; but I bet I will be asking plenty of questions. What cam/intake do you have on your car? How much power are you making? What tune?

[davej]

say, as long as your going to have everything out, why not pick up a second engine and make yourself a V12 LS1?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1643786-v12-ls1-build.html">http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-h ... build.html</a><!-- m -->

[JPolen01]

say, as long as your going to have everything out, why not pick up a second engine and make yourself a V12 LS1?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1643786-v12-ls1-build.html">http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-h ... build.html</a><!-- m -->

[D_Eclipse9916]

Haha That is awesome. Right now I am hmming and haaiing about how to make more power. It is easiest when everything is out of the car, but heads will cost me another $1k, and I will have to end up getting bigger injectors. It would push my horsepower up to a reliable 450-476 depending on head/cam instead of the 38-415whp I was looking at before.

Scope creep is my forte, no comments necessary.

Anyway, the engine is in the garage and on a stand. Checked over the wiring and only one connector got pinched off, which luckily was handed to me by the guy when I bought the motor. So everything is there!

I am having a hard time finding a T56 for the price I want. If I get one for the price I want, I will do the heads as well; if not, ill have to settle for just a cam/intake upgrade on the motor.

[JustinG]

..... ill have to settle for just a cam/intake upgrade on the motor.

[Steve85]

My cam is a Comp 54-424-11. It's mild, real mild, advertised as a great street replacement for the LS6 cam.
212/218
.558/.563
114 LSA

I have the LS6 intake. I would have to guess power to be around 400 at the crank given a slightly bigger cam but less head than an LS6 (rated at 405).

I got a recommendation for a street friendly cam from "Patrick G." and he spec'd out:
218/226
.598/.570
115 LSA

I listened to some idle videos of similar sized cams and decided on the milder one. Probably could have gotten away with the bigger cam but I was coming off years of big HP at the expense of MPG and annoying as all hell fuel stink. I was done and not willing to risk it. Plus the other stuff you mentioned, I would have started to look at injectors, ported oil pump, upgraded t-chain and right back down the rabbit hole... Now that it doesn't stink and you can hear yourself think, the kids ask to take it everywhere we go, that's worth a lot more than the 150-250hp I gave up from the previous engines.

I need to have it tuned but I'm waiting to get the AC on in case some adjustments need to be made so no actual power numbers. Should pick some up from what you experienced at Rex Raceway. "Tuned by Frost" has a great reputation and he (Steve Williams?) uses the dyno at PAS in Richmond. Also does mail order, but Richmond is local enough.

It's very tempting when it's sitting there on the stand begging for go fast goodies...

[D_Eclipse9916]

My cam is a Comp 54-424-11. It's mild, real mild, advertised as a great street replacement for the LS6 cam.
212/218
.558/.563
114 LSA

I have the LS6 intake. I would have to guess power to be around 400 at the crank given a slightly bigger cam but less head than an LS6 (rated at 405).

I got a recommendation for a street friendly cam from "Patrick G." and he spec'd out:
218/226
.598/.570
115 LSA

I listened to some idle videos of similar sized cams and decided on the milder one. Probably could have gotten away with the bigger cam but I was coming off years of big HP at the expense of MPG and annoying as all hell fuel stink. I was done and not willing to risk it. Plus the other stuff you mentioned, I would have started to look at injectors, ported oil pump, upgraded t-chain and right back down the rabbit hole... Now that it doesn't stink and you can hear yourself think, the kids ask to take it everywhere we go, that's worth a lot more than the 150-250hp I gave up from the previous engines.

I need to have it tuned but I'm waiting to get the AC on in case some adjustments need to be made so no actual power numbers. Should pick some up from what you experienced at Rex Raceway. "Tuned by Frost" has a great reputation and he (Steve Williams?) uses the dyno at PAS in Richmond. Also does mail order, but Richmond is local enough.

It's very tempting when it's sitting there on the stand begging for go fast goodies...

Wow that is very mild, hmm. I was looking at the 228R at 114LSA on the milder side. And then between the 228/232 113 LSA, Torquer V2 cam, and the MS3 cam. I am doing an LS2 timing chain anyway, as well as an LS6 oil pump. I really should contact "patrick g." Seems like he knows what to do and will help you out.

Glad to know Tuned by Frost is local, sounds like ill be trailering down to richmond once the motor is in.

[Beej]

LSx talk is essentially Greek to me, but count me in for being stoked to watch this progress.

I'm not a monster fan of grey interiors, but that sucker is cleeeean, especially considering the mileage!

[D_Eclipse9916]

So I am starting to compile a parts list of what needs to still be acquired:

-T56
-LS7 Clutch/Flywheel
-Samberg LS1 Subframe Mount kit
-Samberg LS1 Swap Headers
-Samberg LS1 swap Steering column
-TSP 228R cam 112LSA
-7.425 Pushrods
-TSP Steel dual Valve Springs
-LS6 Oil Pump (sourced from Brian Bowers)
-LS2 Timing Chain
-LS6 Intake Manifold
-T56 Slave Remote bleed setup
-Exhaust piping/Magnaflow for welding up own exhaust
-High pressure hosing for Power steering
-Corvette FPR/Fuel Filter
-Lengths of Fuel Injection Hose
-255LPH fuel pump, may even have one lying around here somewhere...

If any of you come up on deals for any of these things please let me know! I am obviously trying to save as much money as possible.