I am so doing this when I convert the DSM to track duty....

[D_Eclipse9916]

oh well, some people just cant read the thread as I posted why DSMs have not been on track.

And I guess im a shitty driver, I guess I wont do anything with those grip, power, and handling. Despite the fact that ive gone to 20x the amount of autocrosses and at least been out on track twice.

So dont speak up when you have no right to, and if you try to say shit, at least be able to back it up.

[D_Eclipse9916]

fuck it im done, this is nonsense, shit up the thread all you want.

[Jewels]

fuck it im done, this is nonsense, shit up the thread all you want.

Dude, don't get bent out of shape when Feersty says stupid shit. He knows about as much about the track as the squirrels that live there. Don't worry about him.

[BLINGMW]

There are soo many arguments on the web about this topic, mostly between the physics equation guys and the guys that actually run the man-style tires. I don't know enough to pick a side, but it's made for a couple interesting reads.

I'm convinced and side with the physics equation guys FWIW. The contact patch doesn't actually change area, it just changes shape. And the grip stays the same assuming the tire is at the same temp. Which, like RJ pointed out, means you could have too much tire because it won't warm up. This is of course ignoring that a larger tire weighs more, so that works against it even further. And of course the opposite is true, too little tire and it overheats.

In your case, of course, a 285+ might make plenty of sense when you have a 3000+ lb car with a billion HP. Similarly, the 245's on an E30 might be just fine if they're a soft compound that heats quickly, and obviously they were. But I'd be willing to bet that car tipping up like that has more to do with an ultra stiff setup and too much bar, which is pretty popular for autocrossing. And it also heats the tires more quickly of course.

My 318 loves its 205's on track! Sad really. :lol:

[D_Eclipse9916]

Finally someone jumping in with some real debate....

I agree that the E30 jumped because of the bar, thats part of why a lot of Audi's VWs, sentras like to tripod when you put real big bars on the rear, notice I say part of why.

The big problem is weight of the vehicle, with an E30 you can go with small brakes, small tires, and still outbreak the SHIT outta my DSM with larger brakes and huge tires. The problem is with weight, I need more of everything equalling even larger weight. Luckily I have been able to counteract a lot of the weight with the parts im choosing such as my 2-piece aluminum hat rotors that are actually just a bit lighter than my stock ones, and 4-piston calipers that are lighter than my 2-piston calipers. My wheels are much larger and wider, yet they are lighter.

I am Trying lol TRYING to battle the weight vs. upgrades. Why do cars have roll cages? It increases weight a TON but it meets safety standards, and helps chassis rigidity, if it werent a huge safety call, would cages be worth the extra weight on a modern vehicle? I am still learning about cages and their effects.

[Feersty]

Well, you should go to the track more often or stop sleeping on your corner station when you are there.

I lost interest and I am saving for retirement.

[.RJ]

I lost interest and I am saving for retirement.

I thought you were saving for a house.

If you dont want to go to the track no one cares, you dont have to justify it, and no one brought it up but you.

[Maengelito]

Well, you should go to the track more often or stop sleeping on your corner station when you are there.

I lost interest and I am saving for retirement.

thats quite the life you lead. DJ, you've got more track experience than feersty. worry about those who know what they're talkin about and can provide some useful feedback.

[Nis01]

I've also been looking into running wider rims for more contact patch for STU class auto-x. We can run a max width of 245 and the top guys are running 17x9+ with enough camber to fit the tires without rubbing. Supposively its quite helpful for max contact patch on a street tire of that size. I don't really know enough about r-comps to know if the extra contact patch is worth the weight or not but I know the Subie racers normally don't go wider than the fenders without adding a widebody when it comes to tracking the car. The AS guys with some fender rolling get 275s to just barely fit.

[CaptainHenreh]

FWIW, I'm with the "As big as will fit" camp.

[.RJ]

For autox, yes you really want as much tire as you can stuff in the fenders to put the power down. The FWD camp petitioned hoosier to make a 285/35/15 :!: for the street mod hondas - some of them are into the 230-240 whp range though.... but they are not using that big ass tire in the rear for sure.

[Andy]

I honestly wouldn't start modding a bunch of stuff until you get more seat time. The more seat time you get, the better you'll get at determine what you need and not necessarily what you want. Track abuse and autox abuse aren't in the same league.

DJ-The 2 piece rotors seems like a waste of money. Is there a OEM replacement that you could use? With the WHP's and weight you're working with, I'd imagine you'd go through rotors pretty often once you get on track. I wonder how often Chad goes through rotors/brakes?

[D_Eclipse9916]

2-piece rotors came with the wilwood 4-piston setup that was 400. Thats dirt cheap. Got it used, but the fact is, the 2 piece rotors means that I only ahve to replace the actual rotor part, not the hat, meaning CHEAPER rotor replacements than one-piece. Also, I will be getting blanks for my replacements so they eat up less pad as the 1.10 THICK rotors that are directionally vaned so ill never have problems with brake fade.

The modding stuff was to get me up to enough horsepower so I wouldnt get pwned by the zo6 corvettes.

As you can see in my future projects and current projects, I am coming to the end of my modding, no more need for more power, the oil coolers and tranny coolers are actually FOR reliability.

And yes I do understand that autox beats up WAYYY less than track, Thats WHY THE OIL COOLERS AND 2 piece rotors.

[JustinG]

Just through my observation, DSMs are mostly found in drag racing. On DSMtuners.com, one of the biggest, if not the biggest, forum for DSMs on the net, just within the last year and a half i think, finally designated a forum strictly to AutoX and Road Racing, but in my 4 years as a member has always had a majority of members geared toward drag. But more and more people on the DSM boards are getting into autoX and from there going into road racing, because of the restrictions being lifted with the intro of the EVO and STi as stated earlier. DSMs are getting on track more and more, i see alotta west coast guys doing the road racing thing more so than east coast guys so far, so that could be an explanation.


I personally will probably never take my DSM on track, i love to drive it to much to make it into a track car, not saying i wont get something else to possibly do track events with.......Wicked White Evo RS FTW......maybe? :twisted:

[Andy]

If you're going to solicit advice/comments, maybe not coming off so defensive and using ALL CAPS UNNECESSARILY would help encourage others to offer their bit of experience.

[Scott]

fuck it im done, this is nonsense, shit up the thread all you want.

Dude, don't get bent out of shape when Feersty says stupid shit. He knows about as much about the track as the squirrels that live there. Don't worry about him.

Yeah I won't worry about him to much, I mean come on, he drives a Focus.....

[ScottyB]

i am apt to side with the physics guys on the tire thing. if you ever watch those solar-racer cars take turns, they can practically corner around a 90 degree intersection at top speed (which is usually 50-60 mph IIRC) despite have basically bicycle tires:



they are very light, so the wider rubber would be worthless. you can certainly over-do it. however....i have a feeling you probably won't get to the point where you'll overdo it on any wheel you can fit within your fender. 245's are probably fine.

also with lightening your car -- it's a great thing to be doing. i think it's often overlooked due to the diminishing returns nature of it. but also remember that its also as much about distribution as overall weight loss. move the battery around, get a lighter hood, take away accessory drives you don't need or are broken. when i see cars that are totally gutted behind the front seats i wonder how much it has screwed up the weight bias.

good stuff though DJ :thumbup: i'm a jealous guy

[Goodspeed]

Proper tires suitable for your needs are all fine and good, but do 245's look as good as this?




/ricer



....Steve85, take note of the above picture!

[Dave]

I'm also in the bigger=better camp, but I do realize that it also follows the law of decreasing return/negligible gain. I just think it looks hawt.
IIRC, back when I had my Talon I noticed that a the vast majority of the eclipses on track were out west (there are a couple around here, but very few). I think I've seen damn near every car in a motorsport setting, from a Geo to a Noble, and all that really matters is that the driver is enjoying himself. Furthermore, most of the time, if they aren't enjoying themselves, they're doing something wrong (or sorting out a car :-) ).

[WRXtranceformed]

fuck it im done, this is nonsense, shit up the thread all you want.

Dude, don't get bent out of shape when Feersty says stupid shit. He knows about as much about the track as the squirrels that live there. Don't worry about him.

Yeah I won't worry about him to much, I mean come on, he drives a Focus.....

Says the guy who drives a Miata!

*hides from all the miatafagfanbois* :wink: