Debate tonight

[Kaan]

12 beers + debates = Kaan having fun :lol:

[Andy]

Diff. between '66 Yale Grad and '68 Grad?
Diff. between two blue bloods?
Should we look out for the interests of Republicans/Democrats or should we calmly figure out what's best for America, irrespective of what party we favor.

[ButtDyno]

"To say that there's only one focus in the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of war on terror. Of course we're after uhh Saddam Hussein I mean uh Bin Laden.."

JESUS CHRIST MAN!

[Maengelito]

he's not the most articulate man, we get it. i think a lot of critics focus on bush's inability to speak clearly instead of focusing on issues at hand. this is why bush is president and not a world famous books on tape voice. who the hell cares if he cant pronounce nuclear? i'd rather him know who to drop them on than pronounce it.

[JackoliciousLegs]

"To say that there's only one focus in the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of war on terror. Of course we're after uhh Saddam Hussein I mean uh Bin Laden.."

JESUS CHRIST MAN!

You missed a crucial part of that.

"To say that there's only one focus in the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of war on terror. Of course we're after uhh Iraq uh.... Saddam Hussein I mean uh Bin Laden.."

Kerry did a decent job and Bush did better than he did in 2000 which is all that can be asked of him. I liked that Bush's head would bob when he was making a point and that he'd start smiling when he thought he made a good one. If it was a really good point, he'd chuckle. Oh Bush, you're so funny... but if you get re-elected, i'm leaving the country

Bush says we're strengthening our ties with allies. Wrong. Just plain: wrong. Bush, and it seems, the rest of his followers, have a completely different view on how we should approach the world from Kerry and "silly liberals." Unilateral decisionmaking, solo imperialism, solo invasion of sovereign nations... these are characteristics of other great societies right before their downfall. Bush fails to see (or maybe to acknowledge) that we live in the world... not the US... the world. Being the most powerful nation in the world (or not so much) means working to strengthen ties with other nations. Not preemptively attacking a sovereign nation with a 4 country alliance. I'm not arguing about economics because to argue that a small tax cut shifted the economy either way would be giving a president undue credit (reagan... clinton) imo.

There are four things that frustrate me most about the republican party in general.

1. This idea "let's police the world." Someone may be developing WMDs. They never harmed us... ATTACK! That's like a cop pulling someone over, realizing he has a history of armed violence, and approaching the car while shooting... to make sure he can't do it again. Bush has not been getting foreign policy right.

2. The idea of "we're better than you." Why do you deserve to eat, while he doesn't? This entire american ideology now that "we deserve better." "Buy this, you deserve it." "Live richly." Are you a better person than that guy sitting on a street corner because he was born into poverty and decided that he wanted to be able to have fun too? He bought a bottle of alcohol because he wanted to feel like a real person too. Able to have fun too. Those places in Africa with people starving are getting less money under this administration because the wealthy deserve a tax break. More than policing the world, we need to help the world. Again, we live in the WORLD not the US. (2 refers to foreign aid and social programs)

3. Education after "preemptive safety." I'd rather have the money in the ISAT program. period. If you're out of school, than you haven't experienced budget cuts. If you were in school for the transition from Clinton to Bush, you felt it. I felt it. My friends felt it. We were recently rated 37th smartest in the world for science and tech. A C grade country won't survive in the long run.

4. I'm better than you, part 2. No gay marriage. I am not gay. I am for gay rights. What Bush tried to write into the constitution was one word "discrimination". They can't help it. We can finally just accept it. They deserve it because we are not better than them because we're hetero. We are equal. Equal demands equal protection under the law. That means no "civil unions" (although it would be a step). That's separate but equal. Gay marriage. Period.

On the other hand, under what circumstances would I consider bush.

1. Family affiliated with military. Everything from active service to DoD contracts.
2. I'm a large business owner (revenue above 120k)
3. I've never lived out of the US
4. I don't plan to travel much out of the US (maybe mexico, canada, europe)
5. I believe in "Ignorance is bliss"
6. I am Christian conservative and believe that my morals are indeed valid ones. And thus should be emparted on the rest of the fine people of this nation.
7. Education is only a priority because we want our children to focus on an American economy.
8. I deserve a gas guzzling car because I worked my ass off in school for one.
9. Gays can do whatever they want (we won't kill them)... but I won't accept it.
10. I deserve everything I worked for. It's just the luck of the draw (which side of the food chain you're born on)

Why I don't vote on the R ticket.
1. I don't want to profit from our preemptive wars. I will take a lower paying job if it means not working for a defense contractor.
2. I plan to run my own business (and have it be charitable)
3. I've lived outside the US and know that we live in the world, not just the US
4. I plan to be able to leave the US safely at some point to visit obscure places, or maybe live outside again
5. Ignorance is false bliss
6. I believe everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Don't push it on anyone else. (Sorry if I offend any evangelicals we may have)
On a side note, my best friends in Uganda were both missionaries. I don't judge people for doing that, I just don't agree. I see what it does to societies.
7. Education is a HUGE priority in the GLOBAL economy.
8. I deserve a gas guzzling car because I worked my ass off in college for it.
9. Gays can do whatever they want, as long as they don't try to get with me. Yes, that means they should be able to wed.
10. If you are priveleged enough to eat richly every day, we owe it to those who didn't have that start to try to give them that opportunity.

[WRXtranceformed]

^ great post

[Dragon]

Didn't watch, Ryan, Mike, and I were watching the O's destroy the BlueJays.

[damnit458]

thought you guys might like to see what some other ppl thought
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096625292007&tacodalogin=no">http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... dalogin=no</a><!-- m -->
pretty much all in favor of kerry
of course you have to call the bias of the newspaper into question, but from what ive gathered it seems kerry had a slight advantage thursday night
I hate bush with a passion but I do agree on the idea that he should be judged by his policies/ideas and not on the way he pronounces words.

[.RJ]

Didn't watch, Ryan, Mike, and I were watching the O's destroy the BlueJays.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllls

[Evan]

The general consensus in the post-debate analysis was that it was pretty much a draw. Personally I think the debate was a better than most expected for Kerry. He came out strong and made some decisive points.
With all the momentum coming into the debate, and strong public opinion, Bush had a great opportunity to put a nail in the coffin of the Kerry campaign but I really dont think he followed through enough. Kerry came out shooting flames and Bush seemed content to just counter his arguments and focus on the flip-flop issue. An important issue indeed, but the american public is already well aware of it.

If Bush could have hammered home Kerry's deplorable voting record over the past 20 years, and show how the senate's #1 liberal senator is completely out of touch with the american public instead of hammering on a point that we all already know, it would have been a better debate for him.

Next week's town hall debate should be pretty interesting

[Dragon]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllls </drunken slur>

[ButtDyno]

You missed a crucial part of that.

"To say that there's only one focus in the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of war on terror. Of course we're after uhh Iraq uh.... Saddam Hussein I mean uh Bin Laden.."

I transcribed it straight off my Tivo.. I didn't think I missed anything.. but that's even scarier..

john

[JackoliciousLegs]

The general consensus in the post-debate

according to CNN, and MSNBC, the polls are going from the draw section to Kerry winning. I don't think it was related to the content of the arguments. It was more that Kerry appeared more poised to win. He smiled more. He appeared more confident. This was the consensus independent of the discussions. afaik

[JackoliciousLegs]

I transcribed it straight off my Tivo.. I didn't think I missed anything.. but that's even scarier..

I swore that was what he said... had a couple cap n cokes tho, so I could be wrong

[Dragon]

The general consensus in the post-debate

according to CNN, and MSNBC, the polls are going from the draw section to Kerry winning. I don't think it was related to the content of the arguments. It was more that Kerry appeared more poised to win. He smiled more. He appeared more confident. This was the consensus independent of the discussions. afaik

That's what I heard on the radio this morning as well.

[JackoliciousLegs]

About that quote... i think he blurbed Iraq... then stuttered but the official transcript doesn't show it... oh well.
PS.. that star article probly didn't reflect the opinions of quite a few people... although on CNN this morning, they interviewed several Ds, Rs, and undecideds before and after the debate. I saw the last couple speak and it was Rs and undecideds. They agreed that Kerry presented himself better. Oh well, it was only the first debate. At least it didn't turn into the debates of 2000. I wonder if a lock box joke will come up during the domestic policy debate

[Maengelito]

this is exactly why i hate political discussion because people say waht should happen without realizing that things just dont work that way wether they like it or not. on a lighter note, who else could not stop cracking up when kerry was commending bush on his daughters and he said he's seen them and he watches them... i almost spit my beer out!

hi-larious!

[JackoliciousLegs]

I acknowledge that his daughters -- I've watched them.

-Official Debate Transcript

[Dragon]

BUSH: I'm trying to put a leash on them.

Quality!

[Evan]

BUSH: I'm trying to put a leash on them.

mmmm mmmmm so am I! :twisted: