Labor of love right? Nice job.
My best advice for doing AN Lines is to pick up the "koul" AN tools. I will never try to put together AN Lines again without those tools.
2020 Ford Raptor
2009 Z06
1986.5 Porsche 928S
I know you've said it somewhere, but what exactly is going on here? You swapped the subframe?
03-19-2018, 10:58 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2018, 11:12 AM by Deceus.)
(03-19-2018, 09:32 AM)D_Eclipse9916 Wrote: Labor of love right? Nice job.
My best advice for doing AN Lines is to pick up the "koul" AN tools. I will never try to put together AN Lines again without those tools.
Yup picked one of those up and it's been flawless so far. Was on fence that it was worth the money at first but it has definitely paid for itself 100x at this point with all the lines I've made. I think the hose split on that one fitting a bit and instead of threading in like it should have, it folded the hose and pushed it out a bit. It seemed a little crooked but I got a little cocky and ran with it since I haven't had a single one leak yet.
(03-19-2018, 09:48 AM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: I know you've said it somewhere, but what exactly is going on here? You swapped the subframe?
There's a crossmember between the front 2 frame rails that holds the engine and steering box in place and is where my lower control arms mount.
I passed on the tubular setup initially because it was only offered in the earlier "biscuit" style motor mounts. Basically just a piece of rubber gets sandwiched between the engine and k-frame. They were notoriously shitty for any motor with a respectable amount of torque and once that rubber was compromised, your engine was free to bounce around where ever it wanted.
That's why they switch to a spool mount in 73 which was basically a solid motor mount with an insert.
I went with a solid steel mount to eliminate the possibility of my engine getting loose but it's still a lot harder to setup. Before I just had to drop a bolt into a slot, now I have to line up the motor and k-frame with mount to get it sandwiched properly. Huge pain in the ass I didn't wanna to go through but the passenger side of the old unit was wallowed out when I got it and is likely the source of all the front-end alignment issues.
Well looks like I'm dropping the k-member and power steering box and taking out the driver side header to smash the shit out of the #1 cylinder tube. Managed to get 2 of the 3 bolts in for the steering box but it isn't sitting flush at all so the third bolt won't go in without crossthreading. The #1 tube is resting on the box now that the driver side mount is seated all the way and I can't have that even if that third bolt went in.
I feel like this is the last of my patience. I really do. It's utterly fucking ridiculous to spend $500 on "direct fit" headers and another $570 on a steering box that Borgeson is all too happy to tell you is soooooo much smaller and lighter than the stock unit to have shit not fit like this. Like it's not even close and it's a pretty common issue. I guess I lucked out using the spool mounts and the engine was sitting a little higher. This car is 45 fucking years old, you'd think they'd have shit figured out by now...
Could you just shim the motor mounts?
Why do people just post what they are thinking? Without thinking.
2012 Ford Mustang
1995 BMW 540i/A
1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD
(03-19-2018, 11:08 PM)ViPER1313 Wrote: Could you just shim the motor mounts?
Yeah I was thinking about that last night. The K-member kit came with 2 really thick washers for one of the power steering bolts. I may just use those on the mount since there's plenty of room on the stud for them and I didn't seem to need much spacing for the power steering bolt with the stock lock washer on it.
Another day, another beer. Really don't want to mess with this a third day in a row but fuck it, I'm close.
03-20-2018, 07:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2018, 07:51 PM by Deceus.)
Sooo shimming it didn't seem to do much somehow. The threads are also jacked up on one of the power steering bolt holes so I made the decision to just rip everything out. Unfortunately that also meant removing my shifter mount on the trans since the cable ran through the pipes. It was a huge pain in the ass but at least the exhaust and torsion bar were out of the way this time.
The plan WAS just denting that one tube pretty good and throwing everything back together but I give up on long tube headers after all this. I seen a place where the nylon braiding on one of the trans cooler lines had started to melt. Even with a dent it was still going to be stupid close to the steering box ... and the starter ... and the positive cable running to the starter ... and the shifter cable ... and the trans cooler lines ... you get the picture. I think the solution is going with some short headers from TTI.
So much more room at the cost of maybe 4 horsepower. Dealing with a single 2.5" pipe in that area instead of four 1 5/8" tubes is going to make life a lot easier. I couldn't even get my oil filter in on the passenger side without a few cuss words. The only part I'm going to miss is the sexy cermanic coating I have on them that I paid a good bit for.
Here's hoping they make it here in time for the car show. If not I still have the manifolds I used to break-in the engine. I'll throw those on with a turn down if push comes to shove. Probably going to need ear plugs but I'll make it there lol.
03-21-2018, 08:56 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2018, 08:56 AM by ScottyB.)
i've heard that header wrap can make a hell of a difference. worth the time to try to "seal in the flavor" and keep it from radiating into some of the close-lying equipment?
also worth mentioning are the heat shields that Vibrant sells. seems like some pretty cool stuff and you can obviously cut, bend, and mount it to fit whatever your need is.
https://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/i..._1356_1359
i had an issue on my old 2.5RS where the exhaust header ran the collector right under the driver's steering rack boot. obviously the boot didn't fare too well. a simple heat deflector made of aluminum flashing took care of it from there on out and i didn't have any further issues from that point on which was like 50k miles.
2010 Civic Si
2019 4Runner TRD Off-Road
--------------------------
Past: 03 Xterra SE 4x4 | 05 Impreza 2.5RS | 99.5 A4 Quattro 1.8T | 01 Accord EX | 90 Maxima GXE | 96 Explorer XLT
The downside to the wraps is that they tend to hold moisture and rust out headers pretty fast. A heat shield for the starter is definitely something I should have thrown on but there would be no room for anything with the steering box. Having to thread both the battery cable and shifter cable through the tubes meant it was only a matter of time before I was replacing those after getting stranded.
I'll lose like 15-20 ft/lbs of torque on the low end and make the same horse power but I'm done playing this expensive ass game. Schumacher makes a Tri-Y header that flows better than shorties but with all the merging and lack of equal length tubes means you lose some of the benefits but not nearly as much. Trickflow is making some great out of the box aluminum heads for this engine finally. They'll be out later this year and they're on the radar. If I pull the trigger on engine 2.0 (aluminum heads, roller cam, roller rockers) I'll probably buy those too. But that's wayyyyyy in the future. These shorties should be fine for 400-450 hp which I won't be making ... yet.
03-23-2018, 07:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2018, 10:03 PM by Deceus.)
So final solution: going with what I should have done from the start and getting TTI full tube headers. Everyone knows they're the best (for performance AND fit), they're just pretty expensive. About $250 more than the Doug's. I really wanted to go with the shortys even though the idea of losing 15-20ft/lb of bottom end torque really wasn't sitting well with me but they're not in stock and would take 6-8 weeks before they'd ship. Not gonna happen, so I cancelled my order. At first I was going to try and make the magnum manifolds I have work but they're both rear exit truck manifolds and would take some serious tube bending magic to make it work on the passenger side. Then I decided to just buy some reproduction manifolds for a 340/360 and throw them on. No dice, nobody makes em. Then I figured I'd just get some cheaper shorty headers but they're all center dump on the driver's side and would also take a miracle to fit right. THEN I figured I'd buy original manifolds off eBay but I was looking at spending close to $500 for a decent set, not counting shipping. So here we are.
The good news is that I can just pack my old headers in the box for the new ones and recoup most of my costs. I didn't ding them too much and the coating is still in good condition since I did the break-in with those manifolds so it should sell just fine. I should get the new ones in 5-6 days. That's cutting kinda close to the car show but I should have plenty of time to get it all together since I'll have kid-free evenings and weekends until then starting Sunday. I won't be able to do the steering linkage or torsion bars until they get here but I can at least get the control arms back on and the new balljoint boots on everything.
(03-21-2018, 09:21 AM)Deceus Wrote: The downside to the wraps is that they tend to hold moisture and rust out headers pretty fast.
i've always thought with wrapped headers you sprayed them with some kind of header paint after they're wrapped and it seals out the moisture. at least for a time - maybe that degrades and they do contribute to rusting. i never had a chance to try it with the borla manifold on my subaru but that seemed how everyone with those cars did it.
2010 Civic Si
2019 4Runner TRD Off-Road
--------------------------
Past: 03 Xterra SE 4x4 | 05 Impreza 2.5RS | 99.5 A4 Quattro 1.8T | 01 Accord EX | 90 Maxima GXE | 96 Explorer XLT
(03-25-2018, 04:10 PM)ScottyB Wrote: (03-21-2018, 09:21 AM)Deceus Wrote: The downside to the wraps is that they tend to hold moisture and rust out headers pretty fast.
i've always thought with wrapped headers you sprayed them with some kind of header paint after they're wrapped and it seals out the moisture. at least for a time - maybe that degrades and they do contribute to rusting. i never had a chance to try it with the borla manifold on my subaru but that seemed how everyone with those cars did it.
Yeah it's pretty debatable. If you're driving pretty it regularly then it's not nearly as big of an issue because the moisture gets burnt off. If it's sitting for months at a time in a garage that gets coated in water every time the temp jumps from 30 to 60 (fucking VA weather) then it's not as good of an idea. I'll just wrap everything else and get a good ceramic coating on the headers. Put a heat shield on the battery cable today and the shifter cable already has one. I'll be sure to route the trans cooler lines a little later by switching to the smaller clamps I have. Right now they're routed together through some jumbo clamps that let them move around a little. Been looking into getting a blanket for my starter as well while I'm able to access it still.
That should cover all bases. Just waiting on the headers to get in here to start a lot of work. Got the lower control arms on today and replaced the ball joint boots that needed replacing. Nothing is torqued down yet but I should be able to move pretty fast once everything is here. Going to be a bit nervous until I get tracking info for the headers. I'd really like to make it to the Autocross the Sunday after the show as well but I'd like to drive it little more to make sure the crankcase issue is resolved and give the EFI some time to tune.
Maybe I'll finally see this thing!
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(03-26-2018, 03:54 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: Maybe I'll finally see this thing!
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Headers get in Monday. Kinda sucks I won't get to do a proper coating on them but I've heard good things about the VHT flameproof spray cans. It takes a good bit of prep and proper curing but the coating seems to hold up pretty well especially for it's price-point. Probably going to invest in a small sand blaster gun since I have an air compressor. That should take care of surface prep for the powder. Hopefully it will look good for at least a year or 2. Ordered a heat blanket for my starter and trans cooler lines, that gets here Wednesday. Really sucks that I'm stuck waiting for the headers to do anything with the front end but I have all torque specs written down and the good plan in my head. Just gonna have to use this weekend to get ahead at work and use the time during the week.
Hopefully getting the headers painted and in the car Mon/Tues, getting the exhaust and front end back together Wednesday, dialing in my alignment (hopefully just setting my toe) thursday and shake down runs Friday.
It should definitely make it to the show for sure. If the new headers gives me trouble, I'll bash the old ones and throw them on. Alignment shouldn't be a problem as I'm sure I can at least get it to drive straight. I can I just slip mufflers on the back of the collectors for an exhaust if I have to. Probably not going to make it to the Autocross though unless everything goes perfectly smooth. I may just register the Ralliart and just showup with the Demon if I can. I'll have time to chase the boost leak and it's getting a set of pilot sports today but I'd REALLY rather take this car if it's possible.
Dear diary,
Been super lazy the past 2 days but finally spent some time in the garage this evening. Took some time figuring out the strut rods. It turns out the back nut was stuck on both of them making it seem like only one end of the rods adjusted. I didn't like having the passenger side hanging on by just a few threads and the driver side one completely backed out before it got long enough, so I pulled them out to investigate. I figured it was really dumb that the bottom portion had threads but wouldn't spin. I had to clamp the rod in a vise but eventually it worked exactly the way I expected. The bottom threads are reversed so the whole thing acts a lot like my tie rods do in that if you spin the middle section one way both ends will back out and if you spin it the opposite direction it pulls both ends in.
The alignment shop told me the rods must've gotten bent since they couldn't get that one side to tighten up... They definitely didn't know what they were doing and I definitely regret trusting someone else to work on this car especially considering how much money it ended up costing me. Won't be doing that again.
Got the torsion bars in without much issue and even managed to get my steering column back on the box by myself. I get 3.5 turns lock to lock so I just moved the rotors all the way to the right and pointed the steering wheel to the left. That should have everything centered after 1.75 turns. The hard part was having to reach through the driver side window, keep the wheel straight and press down hard enough to get it to seat with one hand while holding the coupler on the box in the other hand. Realized I got a little ahead of myself because now my steering linkage was in the way a bit when I went to throw on the heat shielding but it wasn't too much of an issue.
Alignment wise I basically just need to throw on my shocks and I'll be ready to bring the car back down to get my toe dialed in. Had to exchange the chamber gauge I ordered but the new one should be in tomorrow. Basically only have 2 camber bolts on each side to deal with. The standard procedure is to bring the front one all the way out and then use the back one to dial in camber. This should give me 4-5 degrees of caster with 2-3 degrees of camber to play with. Probably just going to set it around -1.5 and see how that works out for me.
Just waiting on the exhaust still. It's actually left Front Royal this afternoon but looks like UPS only delivers in "select metro areas" on Saturdays so I'll probably be stuck waiting until super late Monday. With the aftermarket steering box and mini starter, these headers shouldn't have much issue going in at all but I'm expecting to have to have to rip both out to make it happen.
Really hoping to have this thing back together by Tuesday/Wednesday and hopefully leak-free and dialed in by Friday. I'd really like to test out the EFI and run the event in Verona but I don't want to reserve a trailer until I'm certain it will be able to run it.
Day 1
Today was mostly a success. The headers came in a little early around 4. I wrapped up work and got in the garage by 5 feeling pretty optimistic. It was a lot harder getting them in the car than I hoped it would be. There was just no way they were going to get on the studs from underneath the car without ripping everything out and I mean everything. The starter was the first to and I quickly realized leaving the box in place just wasn't going to happen. Had to remove the starter stud and pull the steering column all the up to the firewall. I could tell pretty early on that nothing about this was going to be easy.
Finally got the driver side on but couldn't find a way to get the steering box back in. Bit the bullet and jacked up the engine about 2 inches and in it went. The front tube wasn't routed like the shorties unfortunantely and still barely touches the steering box at one point but at least it wasn't resting on it like the Doug's. These things aren't coated yet so I had no hesitations about taking the hammer to them. Problem solved ... hopefully. They fit a lot better around the box but they came a lot closer to my frame rail which meant rerouting my battery cable and tranny cooler lines. Not sure how I'm going to route my shifter cable with these. There's not real good way except looping it underneath. The tension in the cable makes that a little difficult though, it doesn't really want to hang at all. I may have to find a way to attach a small weight to the cable to maintain the gap, we'll see.
I was hoping the passenger side would go smoother but no dice. I had to pull the oil filter so that meant draining the fresh break-in oil I just put in the car. Didn't have anything clean to catch it so I went to AutoZone and just got a 7 quart pan so I could at least reuse the oil. I caught a break with the fuel lines, they're not anywhere close to the passenger side headers so that was a relief.
Pulled the headers back off and got to work rerouting the driver side stuff and wrapping it in the heat sleeves I bought. Everything should be fine where it's at now. That's all I had the time and patience for today. Was hoping to at least get the headers sandblasted with a coat of primer but I knew that was going to be a stretch goal from the start. Going to get that started around lunch tomorrow. Hopefully the weather cooperates, it's going to be 65 but with a chance for some rain here and there.
I doubt the coating is going to be dry enough to handle tomorrow evening so I probably won't get much else done. I guess that really depends on how well I stick to light coats. Still I'm glad I didn't run into any kinda blocker even though I'm pissed it was about as hard it could have been with there being one. Should still be on track to driving this thing on Thursday or Friday if I work my ass off.
Day 2
The sandblaster did nothing but make a mess and it rained the moment I got my paint station setup in the driveway. The "morning" showers in the forecast didn't come until 1:30, stopped the moment I was done and started back up when I was going to grill some burgers for dinner. I'm not sure what deity I've pissed off but apparently I've done a thorough job.
Got the headers coated on the front porch without much incident though. Just used some 220 grit sandpaper to rough everything up first. It dried pretty fast so I did get a chance to throw them on. Getting the bolts in was a HUGE bitch and took the better part of the evening. But I did have the time to jack up the motor, slip the steering box in and test the fitment again. I took a mini sledge to the one tube making contact and made about 1/4" of a dent. It was enough (and in the right place) that nothing was making contact when I brought the engine back down. Soooo I guess I can finally fucking call the k-member swap a success. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this point given the nature of this build.
I picked up a fender roller to give myself a little more room for the back tires. I could see I was making contact on the driver's side when I watched the footage of my autocross runs in Winchester. It was just barely touching the sidewall so I should be good once I give it a few passes. Also had to order a new sway bar because the old one wont work with the new k-member. Gonna focus on getting this thing back on the ground tomorrow though and deal with those 2 issues if I have the time.
Should still be on track to have this thing back on the road Thursday. Now I just have to hope it doesn't snow this Saturday...
you're a freaking warrior. i would have drank myself into the sweet release of death a long time ago with this kind of build.
are you running a P/S cooler? might be cheap insurance to do it since i'm sure the steering box is going to pick up some heat from that tubing regardless of how much you coat it.
2010 Civic Si
2019 4Runner TRD Off-Road
--------------------------
Past: 03 Xterra SE 4x4 | 05 Impreza 2.5RS | 99.5 A4 Quattro 1.8T | 01 Accord EX | 90 Maxima GXE | 96 Explorer XLT
(04-03-2018, 10:34 PM)ScottyB Wrote: you're a freaking warrior.
Seriously, I've given up on much easier tasks.
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(04-03-2018, 10:34 PM)ScottyB Wrote: you're a freaking warrior. i would have drank myself into the sweet release of death a long time ago with this kind of build.
are you running a P/S cooler? might be cheap insurance to do it since i'm sure the steering box is going to pick up some heat from that tubing regardless of how much you coat it.
True story: I was listening to viking metal all day to pump myself up for the shitshow I knew I was in for. Wasn't too bad actually but I pretty much run on hate they whole time I'm working on this car at this point lol. At least I've embraced it.
I plan on adding a cooler relatively soon. The ceramic coating on the old headers did a good job on cutting down the heat under the hood but I don't have high hopes for this spray can job. I want to hold off until I grab a hydroboost unit for the brakes before I start planning all that out. That's the last upgrade I feel I "need" because the brakes still feel like they're 80% at best. I think it's a combination of the inline handbrake flexing a bit and the power brakes sized master cylinder with no power brakes. Making the high pressure lines for the power steering is wayyyy harder than the black nylon lines I have everywhere else so I'm just going to get everything in place and order those assembled.
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