2010 BMW 135i

[Jake]

they have enough power (just barely)

[WRXtranceformed]

Car movement when hitting the gas pedal is relative to what you drive / have driven. You get spoiled when your car moves when you hit the gas pedal. I can appreciate where he is coming from

[D_Eclipse9916]

You guys also only go in a straight line or (bless your heart) "think" you are going fast around corners.

The Z06 acceleration seems "boring" and "okay" on a straight road or twisty back roads. Seems bonkers on an autox course. Do what makes you happy, I would think an E46 M3 would be a bit gutless for you coming from a turbo 6.

[Jake]

Car movement when hitting the gas pedal is relative to what you drive / have driven. You get spoiled when your car moves when you hit the gas pedal. I can appreciate where he is coming from

All about power-to-weight, bruh.

I like a good 500-hp-anything as much as the next guy, but to say that "300 hp is on the bare minimum of acceptable" without also specifying an ideal curb weight is incredibly short-sighted and frankly, meaningless.

My Denali makes 335/385 but weighs as much as the White House. My M3 "only" dynos at 206/212 but doesn't weigh all that much. I guess the GMC is the one with an acceptable level of power though.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Speaking of which...it is for sale Fits 3 sets of golf clubs...in the trunk alone (yeah surprised me too)

[RawrImAMonster]

You guys also only go in a straight line or (bless your heart) "think" you are going fast around corners.

Yep, I've already said 300-400whp is perfect for a street car. I'm not interested in tracking anything at this point. Too much money and I don't have the time during the summer anyway.

Car movement when hitting the gas pedal is relative to what you drive / have driven. You get spoiled when your car moves when you hit the gas pedal. I can appreciate where he is coming from

All about power-to-weight, bruh.

I like a good 500-hp-anything as much as the next guy, but to say that "300 hp is on the bare minimum of acceptable" without also specifying an ideal curb weight is incredibly short-sighted and frankly, meaningless.

My Denali makes 335/385 but weighs as much as the White House. My M3 "only" dynos at 206/212 but doesn't weigh all that much. I guess the GMC is the one with an acceptable level of power though.

Ok, so I would have thought it was obvious when I said 300-400whp for a street car it meant your typical, 3500lb +/- a few hundred lbs, sports car.


No need to get all upset guys. 300hp isn't much in a 3300lb car. That's all.

[*insertusernamehere*]

No need to get all upset guys. 300hp isn't much in a 3300lb car. That's all.

Can't imagine how you'd survive in my car, you'd just die :lol: :lol:

20+ year old 130 horsepowers pulling 2700lb I don't even think it has torque

[Beej]

Ha, damn. He's already taking a step down in power, so it's not like he's obsessed.

I agree on the general power range of 300-400 in a 3500lb car for the street. It's just enough to have fun without traction issues or risk of becoming a felon after a few seconds on the gas. That said, it was fun to keep the skinny pedal buried in my old m10 "powered" e30. This is all for cars I'm looking to have fun in; I couldn't care less when I'm cruising around in the Jeep.

I'll be super curious to hear what you think of e46 M's coming from the boosty 135. Have you driven one before?

[RawrImAMonster]

I haven't driven one yet, but I'll be alright with a little less power since this thing really had too much power for the open diff + 245's out back anyway.

Since I have the Xterra for daily driving, I want something more raw than the 135i. It really was a pretty cushy ride compared to everything else I've had.

As I've said before, I really liked my E36 M3, I just thought it needed another ~100hp to suit my tastes. The US version just didn't have a very exciting motor. I think an E46 with a few mods should suit me just fine.

[Jake]

If you want "a little more raw" I think you'll like it a lot. I've driven a few (just please avoid the SMG) and they're a good mix of "raw" and "nice enough to drive places" as in they're still a pretty comfy place to be.

[SlimKlim]

As I've said before, I really liked my E36 M3, I just thought it needed another ~100hp to suit my tastes.

E36 with an S54 swap. Do eeet.

[WRXtranceformed]

Car movement when hitting the gas pedal is relative to what you drive / have driven. You get spoiled when your car moves when you hit the gas pedal. I can appreciate where he is coming from

All about power-to-weight, bruh.

I like a good 500-hp-anything as much as the next guy, but to say that "300 hp is on the bare minimum of acceptable" without also specifying an ideal curb weight is incredibly short-sighted and frankly, meaningless.

My Denali makes 335/385 but weighs as much as the White House. My M3 "only" dynos at 206/212 but doesn't weigh all that much. I guess the GMC is the one with an acceptable level of power though.

I thought the power to weight concept was kind of understood when talking about a car accelerating. Stephen obviously had his head in the right place. I guess the rrrrrraceeeeekarrrrr drivers get more bent out of shape about the numbers?

It's been a while since I have driven in an E46 M3 and the one I drove in was an SMG but I was really impressed with the overall package. I am sure you will be just fine with the power (to weight and how that affects the acceleration of the vehicle in a straight line from A to B and out of the corners).

[Jake]

I guess the rrrrrraceeeeekarrrrr drivers get more bent out of shape about the numbers?

It's been a while since I have driven in an E46 M3 and the one I drove in was an SMG but I was really impressed with the overall package. I am sure you will be just fine with the power (to weight and how that affects the acceleration of the vehicle in a straight line from A to B and out of the corners).

There are plenty of cars out there that make less than 300 hp and are absolutely fantastic to drive and own every day, that's what I'm getting at. But if you need a XX power number to feel good or whatever, there's a lot of good stuff at the 300+ level too.

I think if I were to sell everything and choose one car that could do-it-most/all, the E46 M3 would be on my super-short list. Fairly cheap to buy in good shape, maintenance isn't awful if it's the only car you're maintaining, and a hoot to drive for daily/autocross/mountain roads/track. And they still look fantastic.

[Sully]

This seems like as good a thread as any to ask. How much worse is maintenance and up keep on an e46 m3 vs a e36 m3. I've been looking for a daily driver and the top of my list is a outback xt that I'd rip the motor out and replace with a built one and with some more reliable parts but that seems like a lot of work I don't have time for. Would an e46 be that much more reliable, if even more. Would I be able to do most things myself? If someone knows a better place to ask this, go ahead and move it but I didn't want to start the one thousandth "what car should I buy thread"

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[RawrImAMonster]

Vanos failures and and subframe cracking are the two big issues you have to watch out for. Bulletproofing vanos ends up being around $500 in parts and you shouldn't have an issue with it afterwards. I'm not exactly sure what it costs to do subframe reinforcements. Some people weld reinforcement plates in and some people just inject some sort of structural reinforcement foam.

Valve adjustments are supposed to be done every 15k. I think a kit to do that is $450 but you can get multiple uses out of the same kit. It just depends on which shims you end up needing.

Even with the recall on earlier models, rod bearings are still an issue for all years. You can expect to replace them somewhere in the 100-150k range. Occasional blackstone oil analysis is how people figure out when theirs need to be done.

Other than that, it should just be normal BMW stuff as it happens (cooling stuff, suspension, etc).

[D_Eclipse9916]

Vanos failures and and subframe cracking are the two big issues you have to watch out for. Bulletproofing vanos ends up being around $500 in parts and you shouldn't have an issue with it afterwards. I'm not exactly sure what it costs to do subframe reinforcements. Some people weld reinforcement plates in and some people just inject some sort of structural reinforcement foam.

Valve adjustments are supposed to be done every 15k. I think a kit to do that is $450 but you can get multiple uses out of the same kit. It just depends on which shims you end up needing.

Even with the recall on earlier models, rod bearings are still an issue for all years. You can expect to replace them somewhere in the 100-150k range. Occasional blackstone oil analysis is how people figure out when theirs need to be done.

Other than that, it should just be normal BMW stuff as it happens (cooling stuff, suspension, etc).

:thumbup: Although I think a lot of the VANOS failures are overblown (not many racers do the VANOS fix and not one that I know of has had a failure, although could be luck).

Structural reinforcement, $120 DIY oil changes, leaky rear pinion seal, interior that falls apart worse than an E36, and just do the rod bearings once, most likely won't have to do them again in your ownership. Also, terrible MPG compared to the E36 M. Cooling system is not nearly like the E36, the water pump is good, radiator should be an item 150k plus miles as well as hoses, but that is any car.

[SlimKlim]

interior that falls apart worse than an E36, .

What? Every E46 I've ever been in is rock solid compared to E36s. They have this weird "soft-touch" coating which is basically like a layer of plastidip over some of the interior plastics, when that starts to peel it looks nasty, but that's the only interior issue I've noticed. E36s literally fall apart. I'd rather respray plastic than constantly try to glue a door panel back together.

Another thing to remember with the E46 is your basic consumables are going to be a lot more expensive, especially with the factory 255/19s and massive brakes.

[D_Eclipse9916]

interior that falls apart worse than an E36, .

What? Every E46 I've ever been in is rock solid compared to E36s. They have this weird "soft-touch" coating which is basically like a layer of plastidip over some of the interior plastics, when that starts to peel it looks nasty, but that's the only interior issue I've noticed. E36s literally fall apart. I'd rather respray plastic than constantly try to glue a door panel back together.

Another thing to remember with the E46 is your basic consumables are going to be a lot more expensive, especially with the factory 255/19s and massive brakes.

The brakes really are very little premium compraed to an E36, and most cars came with 18s :wink:

Most 100k+ E46 M3s I have been in are rattier than E36s at 100k. You gotta find one that is well taken care of (aka garaged its whole life).

[SlimKlim]

Sample bias I guess. :dunno: It does come down to how they've been used, most E36s I come across are at the end of a long, abusive life.

[RawrImAMonster]

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I'm tempted to pick that up this weekend if there's nothing wrong with it. I just sent a text to the guy for more info. I was thinking of getting one with lower miles, but at that price, I'd have plenty for maintenance/mods. Also cheap enough that I might even take it to an HPDE or at least autocross it.