Rethinking the metal to metal incident policy on track?

[Goodspeed]

Slightly OT, but do you have to finish HPDE/be HPDE 4 in order to do Time Trial?

I've been really impressed with the relative safety of the DE events on all the times I've spectated/worked, and even my (admittedly highly weaksauce) lunch laps at VIR felt safer than an autocross.

Still, I'd hate to wreck doing an HPDE, which is why the TT class seems really appealing, the cars are spaced apart a good ways so if you wreck its really your own fault and I'm more comfortable with that. I think I'll have to get a track beater to do HPDE in until I can someday do TT in something nicer, if that is the case.

[.RJ]

I've been really impressed with the relative safety of the DE events on all the times I've spectated/worked, and even my (admittedly highly weaksauce) lunch laps at VIR felt safer than an autocross.

Bike track days are whole nother animal... they're run pretty loose. No real instruction or advice other than "dont crash, but if you do, we'll send out the meatwagon".

Still, I'd hate to wreck doing an HPDE, which is why the TT class seems really appealing, the cars are spaced apart a good ways so if you wreck its really your own fault and I'm more comfortable with that.

Once the lap timer goes on its a different game. You're better off in a school environment if you dont want to crash - but both have their risks.

[Mike]

Having "graduated" the school system, I'd MUCH rather be out in HPDE4 than TT.

Some of the cars in TT are FAST. On average, the drivers are far less experienced.

Same thing goes for HPDE3. 4 feels much safer. The guys in 4 typically have been tracking a long time so not only do they have the experience, but most realize the faster and more ridiculous your car, the more expensive. Closing speeds are far less in 4 on the average.

[Dave]

Having "graduated" the school system, I'd MUCH rather be out in HPDE4 than TT.

Some of the cars in TT are FAST. On average, the drivers are far less experienced.

Same thing goes for HPDE3. 4 feels much safer. The guys in 4 typically have been tracking a long time so not only do they have the experience, but most realize the faster and more ridiculous your car, the more expensive. Closing speeds are far less in 4 on the average.

That's b/c HPDE3 is the catch-all for everybody. If you don't want to race or instruct, you sit in group 3. If you've proven you have a grasp on the concepts but need the seat time to hone and perfect your skills, you get thrown to the lions in group 3. Been running with another group but want to try out NASA, throw them in 3. Been tracking for years and just out there to have fun and blow some money, put them in 3. Get my drift?

I've always said that Group 3 is where you go if you don't know what you want to do with your racing skills and it is a battle for who's wallet is biggest. The new guys and guys with shoestring budgets get eaten alive b/c the group is infested with corvettes and other big-power cars where the drivers dont want to race and don't want to instruct, they just want seat time.

[Mike]

some words

i know all that

[BLINGMW]

did the other guy admit fault? what if your friend's friend hit the brakes too early and disrupted the braking of the turn for everyone behind him? not saying he did, but just throwing some differing opinions out there.

No, as far as I know he didn't really understand that it was his fault. And sure, who knows, I mean it was a beginner group, it's possible and very likely that my friend was off line or on the brakes early, but that doesn't really matter. How else are you supposed to learn?

I agree, part of this is the different (or lack of) rules that bike groups use. The lack of brake lights and mirrors is something I've always struggled with. As is the lack of instruction. But it does happen in HPDE as well, and will always happen with any club no matter how much instruction is provided.

Sounds like pretty much everyone thinks forcing even some small fraction of responsibility on the punter is a bad idea. Oh well! I agree more could be achieved with better education, I just wondered if this would help as well.