holy crap new m3 - Printable Version

The following warnings occurred:

Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$archive_pages - Line: 2 - File: printthread.php(287) : eval()'d code PHP 8.2.30 (Linux)

File	Line	Function
/inc/class_error.php	153	errorHandler->error
/printthread.php(287) : eval()'d code	2	errorHandler->error_callback
/printthread.php	287	eval
/printthread.php	117	printthread_multipage

holy crap new m3 - Printable Version

+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: holy crap new m3 (/showthread.php?tid=5551)

Pages: 1 2 3 4

- .RJ - 03-24-2007

WRXtranceformed Wrote:I'd also like to point out that those are not the power numbers for the new generation of Corvette's that are coming out, which will be much more impressive

But right now they're nothing but a magazine article Wink

Apples to kumquats...

- WRXtranceformed - 03-24-2007

.RJ Wrote:
WRXtranceformed Wrote:That's what the torque curve for an NA V8 should look like imo. Also, with that much displacement, peak torque and hp numbers should be pretty close to each other.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the ingenuity nor the innovation of that motor, but I am trying to say that that torque curve is not all that impressive to me *for a V8*

Lee, you know that torque is pretty closely related to displacement for NA engines, right? And this V8 is only 4.0L compared to the Z06 6.0L... hardly a fair comparison to say the BMW V8 is lacking torque. Apples to Oranges...

Of course it is. This is why you've got to compare that car to its competition. Performance wise it won't even stand in the same league as a base Corvette.

It's apples to oranges in terms of displacement, but the two cars will compete against each other from a performance standpoint. What you're saying is like when rotary fanbois are like "oh, well if my rotary was 5.0 liters it would put out 800 hp NA y0 because it's so efficient." Well good for the rotary, it's not 5 liters and it doesn't put out that power.

Again, I'm not taking anything away from this engine, it definitely does what it needs to do with what its got, but I'm not impressed with that torque curve when compared to other V8s that it will be compared to.

- WRXtranceformed - 03-24-2007

.RJ Wrote:
WRXtranceformed Wrote:I'd also like to point out that those are not the power numbers for the new generation of Corvette's that are coming out, which will be much more impressive

But right now they're nothing but a magazine article Apples to kumquats...

Just wait

- .RJ - 03-24-2007

WRXtranceformed Wrote:Of course it is. This is why you've got to compare that car to its competition.

Good point... but then you could also argue that the BMW caters to a different market than the Z06, as well - so they may only be competitors by virtue of their price point and driveline layout.

- WRXtranceformed - 03-24-2007

.RJ Wrote:
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Of course it is. This is why you've got to compare that car to its competition.

Good point... but then you could also argue that the BMW caters to a different market than the Z06, as well - so they may only be competitors by virtue of their price point and driveline layout.

True true !

- G.Irish - 03-24-2007

Well for a 4.0L V8 the M3 is in good company. And really if you compare the 2 engines their torque curves are simply representative of the different approaches.

The M3's doesn't really get into the meat of its torque until 3500 rpm, where the Vette is already there from a good 1000 rpm sooner. However the Vette's torque starts running out of steam after about 5000 rpm whereas the M3 doesn't taper off until 7000 rpm. Really to me its just the difference between a high revving DOHC V8 and a low revving Pushrod V8.

And as RJ said, peak torque is largely a function of displacement. The LS motors have a lot more torque but they are actually making almost exactly the same torque per liter that the M3 is.

Either way the M3 couldn't hope to compete with even the base Vette. Too heavy, not as slippery (aero), not as much motor. But compared to the other 4/5 seat sedans and coupes in its class it'll do the business. Unless Mercedes blows them away with the new AMG C Class (set to debut at NY Auto Show).

- REED - 03-25-2007

PGK Wrote:A V8 M3 doesn't sit right with me.

yeah i hear ya on that one, although at some point people were saying that a 6 cylinder M3 didn't quite sit right with them either

- .RJ - 03-26-2007

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.speedtv.com/articles/automotive/technology/36191/">http://www.speedtv.com/articles/automot ... ogy/36191/</a>

[Image: 143498_p0033789.jpg]

- .RJ - 03-26-2007

Wait... hold the train here

Quote:The engine block of the new eight-cylinder comes straight from BMWÔÇÖs light-alloy foundry in Landshut near Munich, where BMW also builds the engine blocks for the CompanyÔÇÖs Formula 1 racing cars. The cylinder crankcase, in turn, is made of a special aluminum silicon alloy, conventional cylinder liners being replaced by hard silicon crystals. The iron-coated pistons, finally, run directly in the uncoated, honed cylinder bore.

I dont see any piston rangs in that picture either..... my head a splode.

- .RJ - 03-26-2007

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-bmw-m3-4-0l-v8/">http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-bmw-m3-4-0l-v8/</a>

Looks like there are piston rings... although only two of them. That is one hell of a short piston though. The rods look like they're "broken" too - i forget the correct technical term for it, but it gives a better fit on assembly than a flat rod cap - ford did this on some of their engines i believe.

[Image: p0033788.jpg]

Sexy headers... i think BMW killed any aftermarket support for this thing Wink

- JackoliciousLegs - 03-26-2007

This may be a *simple* question, but why don't the pipes just... you know... meet up? Why all the twisties? Cant they just meet that larger pipe without all the drama?

- HAULN-SS - 03-26-2007

to make them all equal length

- CaptainHenreh - 03-26-2007

.RJ Wrote:Sexy headers... i think BMW killed any aftermarket support for this thing

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/03/p0033783.jpg">http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autob ... 033783.jpg</a>

I would say you're right, but look at the OEM E36 M3 Euro Header, you'll see it's just as sexy. And we didn't get anything remotely like it. Sad

- ScottyB - 03-26-2007

this sort of stuff coming standard just....isn't right :lol:

those pistons and headers are insane.

- BLINGMW - 03-26-2007

heh, BMW has slipped in some real manifolds on other cars before. For instance, the lowly m42 318 I have now has an equal length I believe:

[Image: 3.png]

- HAULN-SS - 03-26-2007

that doesnt look like an equal length design to me, unless that middle one is doig something crazy i can't see from that picture

- CaptainHenreh - 03-26-2007

BLINGMW Wrote:heh, BMW has slipped in some real manifolds on other cars before. For instance, the lowly m42 318 I have now has an equal length I believe:

<a class="postlink" href="http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/b/w/3.png">http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/b/w/3.png</a>

You can sort of see it here:

[Image: cimg19935li.jpg]

- BLINGMW - 03-26-2007

sorry I couldn't find a better pic, but just from eyeballing it, the twist makes them pretty darn close. Either way, sure beats the log style manifolds they used on a lot of other BMWs.

- HAULN-SS - 03-26-2007

yeah, id ont think that's equal length - the back tube would have to be curving a lot more to make it the same as the front one..they might be close though - maybe there was some clearance issue instead?

- HAULN-SS - 03-26-2007

I've actually read somewhere that on a lot of cars, that if you use the log style ones that have an oversize "log" part, they can be pretty efficient - and it looks a lot nicer than that spider web of tubing, if you ask me