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+--- Forum: Technical Discussion (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Should I get these? (/showthread.php?tid=1044)
- Feersty - 09-25-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:TurboOmni08 Wrote:A Buick shouldn't need $50 pads unless its like a Grand National (or you drive it like one)
<-- really wishes he knew where the pic of rob autocrossing was...
Here's one:
![[Image: wNTc2MjU0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg]](http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNTc2MjU0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg)
I fuckin' wailed on my car that day, it was ridiculous. I have the three wheeler in my wet0dd but when i bring up the link i get a red X for the picture.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
Here is my opinion, right or wrong.
I think what alot of you are arguing about just comes down to semantics. A pad with a higher coefficient of friction will provide more stoping power with less pressure. So in that sense, it does affect how the pedal feels. Just like what one of you guys where saying that in the padock the brakes dont feel very good, but out on the track they do. Coefficient of friction goes up with temperature, especially with a track pad (to a point obviously, then they just fade).
Now, about the original post, your problem does not sound like new pads will fix it. Like others have said, its compliance in the braking system. Again, like others have said, this is the result of: junk, including air, in your brake fluid, old rubber brake lines, a flexable fire wall, bad calipers, etc. If your pads are low, replace them, but either way, you should do this: Completely bleed your brakes, use valvolyne synpower fluid, its cheap and its good stuff. Suck all of the old fluid out of the resevior and refill it before you start bleeding so your not putting old crap in there. Bleed it until all the old stuff is out and the stuff thats coming out of the bleed nipple is nice and clean, and bubble free. Be sure to use a clear hose so you can tell. Also, be sure bleed them in the correct order. See if that fixes your problem. Also inspect all the lines very carefully for leaks. Any leaks will introduce air and other bad things into the system.
- Mike - 09-27-2004
oh yeah... i'm not going back to find where this was said, but someone said a high performance pad might give more pedal pressure than an oem-style compound? how? if anything the performance compund will be softer than a rock-hard oem compound... just my .02 that i came up with on the way to work.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:oh yeah... i'm not going back to find where this was said, but someone said a high performance pad might give more pedal pressure than an oem-style compound? how? if anything the performance compund will be softer than a rock-hard oem compound... just my .02 that i came up with on the way to work.
Im really not sure what your saying. The pad doesnt give a pedal pressure. It all comes down to the pads coefficient of friction, which will be dependent on its temperature. You will barely be able to stop with a racing pad before its warmed up, but wants it gets hotter, the CF will have gone up and not as much pedal pressure will be required to achieve the same clamping force.
-Mike
Edit: I Really should say braking torque and not clamping force, although I doubt anyone is going to care, or even notice.
- Mike - 09-27-2004
you'd have to have read the whole thread to know what i was referring to.
- .RJ - 09-27-2004
mpg9999 Wrote:It all comes down to the pads coefficient of friction,
There is much more that determines a pad/pedal "feel" thatn Cf.
Its not rocket science here guys.
- Mike - 09-27-2004
.RJ Wrote:mpg9999 Wrote:It all comes down to the pads coefficient of friction,Its not rocket science here guys.
I think you're wrong.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
.RJ Wrote:mpg9999 Wrote:It all comes down to the pads coefficient of friction,
There is much more that determines a pad/pedal "feel" thatn Cf.
Its not rocket science here guys.
True, but within the scope of our discussion about changing pads, thats really all there is. Obviously when your talking about the entire braking system there are lots of factors that affect "feel", and I thought it was apparent in what I wrote that I know this.
- .RJ - 09-27-2004
mpg9999 Wrote:True, but within the scope of our discussion about changing pads, thats really all there is.
Thats my point, thats not all there is.
There are many more factors in pad construction than Cf that contribute to pedal feel.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
What other factors are there?
- Feersty - 09-27-2004
If anyone wants to help me bleed my brakes, I will provide some monetary compensation. Cause I have no idea where to start. My lugnuts are very hard to get off also, and there is 5 of them.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
If your in springfield I can help you since im in NOVA right now. IM me if you want instructions.
- .RJ - 09-27-2004
mpg9999 Wrote:What other factors are there?
What the pad is made out of (composition)
Its temperature range.
How its made.
Etc, etc, etc... all of which is independing of Cf.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
.RJ Wrote:mpg9999 Wrote:What other factors are there?
What the pad is made out of (composition)
Its temperature range.
How its made.
Etc, etc, etc... all of which is independing of Cf.
and what does the temperature effect? It effects the coefficient of friction. What does the composition of the pad effect? among other things, the CF.
- .RJ - 09-27-2004
No, Cf is at best, a dependent variable.
It is not the end all and be all of everything. Most stock pads have a pretty good Cf but will feel like shit (poor initial bite, feedback) and will fall apart in one session on track.
Dont get hung up on Cf, because there are many more important things to worry about - and production cars are traction (tire) limited in stopping power anyways, so a bigger Cf (if it actually produces more brake torque) will only increase your stopping distances.
- mpg9999 - 09-27-2004
.RJ Wrote:Dont get hung up on Cf, because there are many more important things to worry about - and production cars are traction (tire) limited in stopping power anyways, so a bigger Cf (if it actually produces more brake torque) will only increase your stopping distances.
I agree. "Brakes dont stop your car, tires do" is one of the biggest things people forget. Im not really hung up on CF, I was only talking about that because I was responding to MichaelJcomputer.
- CaptainHenreh - 09-28-2004
Feersty Wrote:If anyone wants to help me bleed my brakes, I will provide some monetary compensation. Cause I have no idea where to start. My lugnuts are very hard to get off also, and there is 5 of them.
Rob, just bring it over to the house. I have an "RJ" bleeder and air tools.
Lemme know if you'd want to, it's a little rainy, and my garage has a trailer, so we'd have to do it kinda half outside the garage, but it doesn't take long...
- .RJ - 09-28-2004
CaptainHenreh Wrote:I have an "RJ" bleeder and air tools.
- CaptainHenreh - 09-28-2004
.RJ Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:I have an "RJ" bleeder and air tools.
Seriously. Bleeding brakes is easy. You should patent the "peice of hose and a ziptie" design, and sell it to Autozone.
- .RJ - 09-28-2004
If you can drink beer, you can bleed brakes.
Gravity ownz j00r asses!