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+--- Thread: WTB: A Shitty Old Truck ! (/showthread.php?tid=1782)
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
This car won't see a track until it receives:
a) new rims and performance tires
b) more power under the hood
c) UPGRADED BRAKES
I'm simply unwilling to push this car in a race setting with the stock pads / calipers / rotors. Could I ? Yes. Will I ? No.
- JohnC - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:stock pads
Just get some new pads and get out there! More power isn't more better (try and take *me* seriously)...
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
More power = more fun though ! Sleepers own =p
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
JohnC Wrote:This coming from teh guy who b0rked his rotor at VIR ?!?WRXtranceformed Wrote:stock pads
Just get some new pads and get out there! More power isn't more better (try and take *me* seriously)...
=p just playing John
- JohnC - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:JohnC Wrote:This coming from teh guy who b0rked his rotor at VIR ?!?WRXtranceformed Wrote:stock pads
Just get some new pads and get out there! More power isn't more better (try and take *me* seriously)...
My stock rotors did fine. It was the *upgraded* rotor that let go.
- Chris - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:More power = more fun though ! Sleepers own =p
fun yes, but it can get you in a lot of trouble on track. a stock WRX is already track worthy- all you need is upgraded pads and brake fluid, maybe tires. give it a try!
- .RJ - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:More power = more fun though ! Sleepers own =p
You wont be using all of what you have, whats the point of adding more when you cant handle it?
- Evan - 02-23-2005
my 2c, as spoken from experience.
WRX has plenty of power stock.
Ask me how I know.
And ask all of the high hp shit that I embarrassed.
lifted rallycar suspension could use some work, but stock brakes are fine, especially if you route some air at them and use good pads.
adding power is just adding unreliability and headaches.
energy and money better spent learning how to drive, or improving the suspension
and back to the original subject, Id go for a mid 90s Tacoma.
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
From what I've read, people with WRXs who track them generally do very well against a lot of high horsepower cars, you're right. They usually also have upgraded springs, sways, tires and brakes obviously. As soon as they go up against lightly modded EVOs and STIs though, they can't keep up. It's definitely a blanket statement to say that people who heavily mod their engines can't drive, but having that horsepower along with handling/braking mods added to the ability to drive on a track would give you such a huge advantage over other cars. So I'll probably end up upgrading all around ! Psha to reliability; I don't see myself owning this car over 100,000 miles.
Yah, so far the Tacoma and earlier pickups are looking promising. Keep me posted !
- .RJ - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:As soon as they go up against lightly modded EVOs and STIs though, they can't keep up.
Who gives a shit?
There will always be someone in a slower car than you that is faster. There will always be someone in a faster car with more $$ dumped into it. What is important is that you are out there, learning, being safe and having fun!!!
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
.RJ Wrote:There will always be someone in a faster car with more $$ dumped into it.That's the category I'd like to be lumped into 8)
- .RJ - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:That's the category I'd like to be lumped into 8)
The problem is "that category" often turns into the category of "those who stuffed their car into a tire wall"
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
Isn't that the risk you take when you track your car though ? High dollar or not, there's always the chance that you're going to wreck your vehicle. Didn't Maeng fuck up his stock STI at the track a little ? If I was going to drive a car on a raceway, I'd want it to be as fast and as upgraded as possible because that's the kind of car I enjoy driving. If I broke it I'd fix it or part it out, sell it, and buy a new one. Driving an old beater on a track simply because I didn't want to worry about wrecking wouldn't do it for me.
It seems like the inherent danger of racing your car is reduced a little in an autocross, which is probably where I'd end up testing my car's limits. Upgraded brakes, suspension and a upgraded turbo with tons of mid-range punch (as well as all the supporting goodies to go along with it) seems perfect for that application. I'd even consider the drag strip just to see what I would run in the quarter mile.
- .RJ - 02-23-2005
Quote:Isn't that the risk you take when you track your car though ?
Yes but something with a lot more power than you can handle will allow you to get in over your head very, very easily. I've seen it happen many times and at a "talk" with students after pulling them off the track in the middle of a session because of it.
Quote:Upgraded brakes, suspension and a upgraded turbo with tons of mid-range punch (as well as all the supporting goodies to go along with it) seems perfect for that application.
The only thing on that list of stuff you want that would do any good for autox is suspension mods - and even then, an experienced driver on a stock suspension'ed, stock tire'd WRX would probably mop the pavement with a novice with a ton of mods. Bigger turbo = more turbo lag, which is horrible for autox, and bigger brakes just add weight - you wont ever get them not enough to need the additional thermal capacity.
It sounds like you're somehow trying to justify to yourself all the things that you want to buy for the car. Thats fine... if you want them, buy them. But before you dump a ton of coin into the car to make it "omghi2ubbqwtf OUTA TIME" fast that you will get more enjoyment out of the car doing a few track events and learning how to drive it than dumping a bunch of money for boulevard pimpin use. JMO, but many of us have been there, done that. Its a good idea to do a few autox/open track events in your every day car when you start doing them because you're already comfortable in it. The car will be faster than you for a long, long time - I put 4,000 track miles on my ITR last year and I really only felt I was getting 9/10ths out of it toward the end of the year. Driver skill can always be improved, and its more enjoyable than throwing parts at the car - and it is a better return on your $$ spent at going faster
- WRXtranceformed - 02-23-2005
Hah, we could keep going back and forth on it forever, and I definitely agree with some of the points you're making. HP upgrades were going to be bought for my car regardless of whether I track it or not, that's just the way I am. I'm never satisfied with what I have, especially when I know it can be better, or I can have better. I don't need to justify anything to myself when it comes to the WRX; people like you and people like me are just in two different schools of thoughts when it comes to upgrading. That's fine ! I respect your opinion. It would be the same deal if I bought a 911 turbo or GT3 or even a Vette. I wouldn't leave the bastard stock.
If I started autocrossing a lot, I probably would go to racing schools, read racing books, practice techniques (I use stuff like rev-matching every single day) because I'm a champion like that ... but that wouldn't affect how I spend money on my car. Ask Aaron or Shea, I'm always telling them about what I have planned next or even what car I'll be upgrading to in the near future.
As far as larger turbo, yah you're generally right, they're going to suck with the lag. The stock turbo is really surprisingly small and does not have great output. Mine is basically maxed at its output right now with the turboback and engine management. There are some really quality turbos out there though with minimal lag (with a sacrifice in the highest RPMS). With a port / polished turbo, uppipe, good engine management, proper wastegate settings, IC hoses, and a few other things here and there, many WRXs are seeing and holding full boost at 2500-3000 rpms. I'm currently seeing full boost at like 3400 with the punch in power at 4k. It's just about how much money you're willing to spend.
Just FYI, the stock tires on the WRX are really piss poor. I don't know if you've ever driven one and taken a turn at high speed, but you'd completely agree with me if you have. It would take a really poor driver in a WRX with good tires to do worse than a good driver in a WRX with stock tires. That's IMO of course, never seen it happen. Just comes from what I've read and from what I've experienced in real world driving.
- .RJ - 02-23-2005
:thumbup:
Spending money on the car is fun, no doubt - but the more track time you have, the less of it you want to spend on the car
Just my experience
- Feersty - 02-23-2005
Yeah I can definitely see the huge differences of opinion here. Many people myself included like their car to look good on the street, to have everything clean and such. Others good could care less about the exterior and focus their attention on driving and driving technique. It is just a matter of where your interests lie within the auto enthuaist community. I am not knocking either. It all comes down to the more money you have the faster you will go. Whether it comes from driver skill or the driver's vehicle. I think a combination of show and go is best. I do plan on tracking the next car I get, fwiw.
- G.Irish - 02-23-2005
Well as another voice of experience I'd say a good middle ground for you might be to do an event or two stock, then begin doing your major upgrades in phases. That way you'll also be able to appreciate how much of a difference your mods have made and you'll also get a feel for whether or not you want or need them at the time.
It might sound like we're poo pooing you, and indeed, some of us do enjoy scattological porn but really we've all been there and we've all seen a bunch of people make mistakes that ruins their enjoyment of the sport. A good handful of those people never come back.
If you do decide to do all of your big mods first, then go out autocrossing to get the car controlthen you'll probably be fine. The only thing you'd have to worry about after that would be the reliability.
- .RJ - 02-23-2005
G.Irish Wrote:The only thing you'd have to worry about after that would be the reliability.
Big turbo/big power + summertime track days = elevated earl temps = things go boom
I dont even want to know what my earl temps at the sump were on my stock motor'ed car this summer
- I do have an pretty fair idea... and thats why I dont want to know.
- G.Irish - 02-23-2005
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Was going to go Cobb Stage 2.5 (VF30/VF34 turbo, STI injectors), but now I'm thinking even bigger fuel injectors and an 18g or 20g with UTEC engine management ! ^_^
Holy crap!!! Tell me what the future looks like after you get back
hock:!