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+--- Thread: Tony Stewart Kills Driver (/showthread.php?tid=10757)
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Apoc - 08-10-2014
Goodspeed Wrote:Interesting excerpt I read today:
Quote:Degrees of Attempted Murder
Like murder, attempted murder can be separated in seriousness and penalties based upon certain factors. These factors are:
First Degree: the defendant planned to kill the victim or was lying in wait for the victim. Attempted murder on a police officer will also be first degree, regardless of planning.
Second Degree: the defendant didn't plan on killing the victim. This typically includes attempted killings during a "heat of passion" or attempted killings while acting in a way which is seriously careless or negligent.
Attempted murder is when the person doesn't actually die. As in, you tried and failed. It's involuntary manslaughter at best, given it'll be impossible to prove he intended to kill him. For him to get that, they'd still have to prove there was a high degree of negligence or was attempting to commit an unlawful act. Given there's a reasonable expectation for there to NOT be a driver one the track and he didn't swerve into him, I can't see anything happening.
Involuntary Manslaughter
Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another human being without intent. The absence of the intent element is the essential difference between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. Also in most states, involuntary manslaughter does not result from a heat of passion but from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while in the commission of a lawful act or while in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony.
Generally there are two types of involuntary manslaughter: (1) criminal-negligence manslaughter; and (2) unlawful-act manslaughter. The first occurs when death results from a high degree of Negligence or recklessness, and the second occurs when death is caused by one who commits or attempts to commit an unlawful act, usually a misdemeanor.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Goodspeed - 08-10-2014
Oh man, I didn't have my Wheaties this morning - confused AM and MS. But agreed on all counts - I highly doubt he can/will be convicted of anything. In fact, I wonder what kind of legal protections are in place at an event like this....I would hope drivers sign some sort of legal disclaimer that includes "if I am dumb enough to get out of my car and walk on the racing line and I get Darwin'd, neither the governing body nor the driver that hits me shall be at fault for my death".
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Senor_Taylor - 08-10-2014
According to Patrick on Facebook, it's not under criminal investigation. Then again, I'm not sure how credible he is as a news source
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - rherold9 - 08-10-2014
TL;DR
Dumbass kid jumps out on hot track. Tony Stewart being the jackass he is tries scaring kid. Ends up killing him. Both jackasses. My opinion on last part. Tony had plenty of room to see the kid so I doubt he was blinded. Tony seemed to be going a bit too fast on a caution lap and you can obviously hear Tony romp on the gas as the blue/white car idled by.
How can one say he was trying to hit the gas to avoid him when the car will just oversteer (Tony knows this) into the kid like it did?
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Senor_Taylor - 08-10-2014
Moral of the story : Be an ass around someone who's also an ass, but involve fast cars and bad things happen.
Seems like an MM meet, but with fast cars
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - WRXtranceformed - 08-10-2014
Goodspeed Wrote:Yeah, and that article that Sully posted said that some NASCAR racers enter those races because it is fun for them. I guess I don't get pro athletes that think it's fun to play competitive pickup games or grassroots tournaments with commoners. Does your ego really need to be fed that badly that you want to go down to the local gym, wreck a bunch of amateurs and then start some junk with a high school senior? (PJ Hairston) Or go to some backwoods hillbilly dirt track because you're Tony Stewart and thrash on a bunch of rookie racers? How many pros in so many sports get hurt in the offseason because of some dumb pickup game? These guys are all rich enough, go build a basketball court, or golf holes like Tiger Woods, or a dirt track in your backyard and don't let your ego potentially cause a worst case scenario like this.WRXtranceformed Wrote:I don't follow NASCAR or its drivers, but has anyone asked what the heck Tony Stewart is doing racing in dirt track races? It that like a funsies sort of thing for him? Go home Tony Stewart, you are supposed to be playing with the big boys.
Pretty common for their drivers to bounce around and compete in different series. Kyle Larson does Nascar, dirt track stuff and karts.
Granted, this kid could have been a dumb dumb and run out on to the track no matter who put him in the wall. But you would think a professional would have better sense to not put himself in that kind of situation, where the locals already resent you for trying to steal their show.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - navin - 08-10-2014
Seat time is seat time -- doesn't matter what the level of competition is, but it seems he wants to be racing against people. Pretty sure I've heard of T.Stewart being at the VIR kart track and other small events.
IIRC plenty of NBA players compete in summer leagues with plenty of "regular joe's".
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Apoc - 08-10-2014
WRXtranceformed Wrote:I guess I don't get pro athletes that think it's fun to play competitive pickup games or grassroots tournaments with commoners.
So if Tiger Woods showed up to play a round of golf with your buddies you'd tell him to leave?
I don't agree that just because you're paid to do something, you shouldn't be allowed to do it with people who aren't. For all we know, he like's dirt track cause he gets his ass kicked most of the time. Or he could like going back to his roots and having fun.
I raced with a few pros back in the day and it was always humbling to see just how good they were. In my opinion, they have just as much right to be on the track as I do.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Steve85 - 08-10-2014
Probably feels good to do that thing you love without the big time pressure and politics that can consume it now. Senna said he loved kart racing the most because of that purity.
I dunno Lee - would you resent Tiger or Phil showing up at a tournament you're playing in? I bet the opposite. You wouldn't win that day but the opportunity to play the game you love against the best in the world for a day would be worth it.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Sully - 08-10-2014
First this is all opinion and we don't know that's what happened. Those cars don't stick like a normal car. You steer by oversteer. And unless we have a video from tony's helmet, we have no idea what he saw and even that won't tell you where his eyes were focused.
Also, in the article I posted, it says dirt track was something tony found challenging and thats why he enjoyed it. And by the sounds of it, he usually gets his ass kicked.
Idk why racers would be pissed that someone famous who gets paid wants to race with you and also bring more attention to your sport.
Dj doesn't get pissed when skeen shows up and actually gives him competition, does he?
I don't get mad when dj shows up at karting and kicks my ass because occasionally I get behind him and watch his line and try to adjust mine.
It's all a matter of perspective I guess but I think you should be happy, that someone who has more skill and experience comes out to get back and give back to the grassroots racers. And that wasn't that grassroots. Those cars looked pretty high end.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - WRXtranceformed - 08-11-2014
Haha I think you guys are missing or ignoring my point. I would be ecstatic if I got the chance to get paired up for a round with Rory or Phil and any number of other pro golfers I respect. A lot of them live around here; Freddie Couples played a round at a public course called Firethorne about 5 miles from my house last year. I can almost guarantee if I was there that day the starter wouldn't have paired me up with Freddie if his group wasn't full. Unless you are a member at a course they play at like Quail Hollow (super rich + invitation only) or play in a Pro Am it's just not likely they are going to want to play with someone who shoots high 80s, low 90s. They don't because it doesn't make them better; 95% of the time they are playing they are either with their coaches, other pros or friends for fun. I used Tiger as an example because he basically has a course in his backyard.
If you want to use golf as an example, a better analogy would be if Rory decided he wanted to go play in the Q-school tournament or in one of the Web.com tournaments after just winning three consecutive championships....because it would be fun for him. I would be super salty if I was in one of those tournaments and he played in it because I could lose my shot at the big leagues! Why would a professional who makes hundreds of millions of dollars from wins and sponsors play in a situation where amateurs / semi pros are trying to work their way up to his level? I think it's foolish, especially going back to Tony Stewart who almost ended his career in a dirt track crash. Jon Jones loves fighting and destroys pretty much everyone he fights in the UFC. He does not take contracts with Bellator or go to some of the grassroots local cagefighting matches and risk his body and career just because he likes fighting. He spends every second of his life training and fighting to play at his level.
I played very competitive soccer for years, some internationally, and 98% of the time I touched a soccer ball it was either during personal training, practice with my team or during match play. I can't recall a single rec league tournament or "pickup" game I played after reaching a certain level because it actually wasn't fun for me playing with people that didn't make me better. In fact, even though our coach promised me the captain spot I didn't try out for our varsity high school soccer team my senior year because nobody on our team really cared about putting the work in to be good at the sport. And for the most part our competition wasn't great back then. That's just my perspective anyway, if playing for funsies, then play for funsies but if you are a pro and get your jollies off joining competitive tournaments or races with people well below your skill level I would argue that your time would be better spent training your body or your skills with people who will make you better.
Just my $0.02 anyway
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Jake - 08-11-2014
Should I feel bad that I don't feel bad?
Is it sad that the kid died? Of course. But Ward chose to get out of his car, wearing all black, and walked toward a hot track.
As Cobetto, Felton, Unkefer and countless others have said... you do not get out of the car unless it's on fire. Otherwise you stay seated and harness'd until EV show up.
Anything else I say is just gonna make me sound more heartless. Had this Ward kid had less of an ego problem and stayed in the car, he'd have been fine. Red mist sucks.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - JPolen01 - 08-11-2014
Jake Wrote:Should I feel bad that I don't feel bad?This times a million.
Is it sad that the kid died? Of course. But Ward chose to get out of his car, wearing all black, and walked toward a hot track.
As Cobetto, Felton, Unkefer and countless others have said... you do not get out of the car unless it's on fire. Otherwise you stay seated and harness'd until EV show up.
Anything else I say is just gonna make me sound more heartless. Had this Ward kid had less of an ego problem and stayed in the car, he'd have been fine. Red mist sucks.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Kaan - 08-11-2014
Jake Wrote:you do not get out of the car unless it's on fire.
and if it is, you dont run at on coming traffic... you find a nice safe barrier to hide behind.
its sad that someone died, but just watching the video, the kid was dodging other cars and jumped all the Tony's shit. Darwin wins one.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - Evan - 08-11-2014
rherold9 Wrote:TL;DR
Dumbass kid jumps out on hot track. Tony Stewart being the jackass he is tries scaring kid. Ends up killing him. Both jackasses. My opinion on last part. Tony had plenty of room to see the kid so I doubt he was blinded. Tony seemed to be going a bit too fast on a caution lap and you can obviously hear Tony romp on the gas as the blue/white car idled by.
How can one say he was trying to hit the gas to avoid him when the car will just oversteer (Tony knows this) into the kid like it did?
how do you know he could see the kid? have you driven on a banked oval at night? ovals are a completely different game, you cant see shit, since something 'ahead' of you, is actually way out to the side and high.
it definately is peculiar that stewart hit the gas and turned towards the kid when he finally saw him. BUT, taken in context, im at least willing to give him some benefit of the doubt.
even though he turns to the right, the ass end goes away from the kid. if he turned left, the kid would have been wholloped by the rear wheel. those cars you basically turn the opposite direction that you want them to go.
im not saying he definitely *didnt* try to buzz the kid, but i dont think there is near enough evidence to say he definitely *did*.
either way, its a tragedy, and what really baffles me is the nascar culture where somehow its not a big deal to get out of your car onto a hot track to wag your finger at some guy who made you angry. from my time racing and cornerworking, I was scared shitless to walk onto a hot track, and even the rednecks knew that you scream at a guy in the paddock if you dont like what he did.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - D_Eclipse9916 - 08-11-2014
WRXtranceformed Wrote:I don't follow NASCAR or its drivers, but has anyone asked what the heck Tony Stewart is doing racing in dirt track races? It that like a funsies sort of thing for him? Go home Tony Stewart, you are supposed to be playing with the big boys..
He came out to Kart with NASA, I guess if he is good he should never get more practice? Most guys who like to wheel, will pretty much wheel ANYTHING they can get their hands on unless their contract stipulates they cannot (A LA F1).
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - G.Irish - 08-11-2014
WRXtranceformed Wrote:That's just my perspective anyway, if playing for funsies, then play for funsies but if you are a pro and get your jollies off joining competitive tournaments or races with people well below your skill level I would argue that your time would be better spent training your body or your skills with people who will make you better.I think in this case, sprint cars are a good bit different than what Tony normally does and he is by no means dominant in sprint cars to the point of it not being competitive. He also races karts and races the Baja 1000 for shits simply because he likes to. I think in motorsport the sheer thrill of racing is what those guys are after, so even racing in a lower series can be satisfying for them. Especially when it's not their main flavor of racing.
Just my $0.02 anyway
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - JustinG - 08-11-2014
So I may be way off in my interpretation of the video....
Car slows down to avoid dude (White and Blue car). Stewart is coming up on slower car, moves to outside of track to pass slower car? Sees idiot, slams throttle to get car to rotate to avoid idiot. Clips Idiot with rear tire. I find it hard to believe he would A. intentionally run over someone and B. not be spatially aware of his car to Idiots location if he indeed was trying to kick dirt in his face.
Now picture this view, at night with a helmet on and visor down covered in dirt, with someone to your cars right in a black suit and helmet going 40-50mph.
![[Image: 22872092_BG5.jpg]](http://wdrb.images.worldnow.com/images/22872092_BG5.jpg)
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - JPolen01 - 08-11-2014
It's also important to note that many of these guys wear multiple tear offs on their visors. Imagine visibility through multiple layers (some people report using as many as 7 layers) in dimly lit area.
Re: Tony Stewart Kills Driver - JustinG - 08-11-2014
another in car view courtesy of facespace.....this one is even more restricting, and of a current sprint car.
![[Image: 10407240_956264401066935_7407040103307642920_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10407240_956264401066935_7407040103307642920_n.jpg)