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Madison Motorsports
Heel Toe Issue - Printable Version

+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Technical (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Driving Techniques (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Heel Toe Issue (/showthread.php?tid=10714)

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Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-03-2014

Well.... I totally forgot I have been running two floormats so to not wear out the OEM ones. And that is 100% the issue. Took them both out. I had no issue what-so-ever actually being "heel-to-toe". Did it 4 times no problem. I do have to be 3/4 or more into the brakes though to be able to even do it at all. I will keep practicing and hope to get this down for my Hyperdrive. I took pictures of my pedal postions the best I could with one person. My gas pedal being so linear makes blipping the throttle easy. I kept consist braking when I did heel toe but I'll make sure I can keep on doing it. Yup floormats suck. I can't believe it is that much of a difference a 1/2 inch or more can do.

Hmm... maybe I'll put my new GoPro mount to the test and show me trying to heel toe...

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Re: Heel Toe Issue - Senor_Taylor - 06-03-2014

Wtf. The one and ONLY rule of floor mats is to not stack them. That's how people die.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-03-2014

Senor_Taylor Wrote:Wtf. The one and ONLY rule of floor mats is to not stack them. That's how people die.

Maybe for an average driver who doesn't pay attention and tries to shove the damn floor mat into the gas/brake pedal than yes it is bad. For someone who is actually aware of what they are doing then no....

The pedal design on the car is so high up there is no issue with it. All depends on the car though as well

Re: Heel Toe Issue - Senor_Taylor - 06-03-2014

rherold9 Wrote:Maybe for an average driver

Oh, forgot you're an amazing, driving expert.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - BLINGMW - 06-03-2014

:lol: :oops:
well I'm glad you figured it out!

Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-03-2014

Senor_Taylor Wrote:
rherold9 Wrote:Maybe for an average driver

Oh, forgot you're an amazing, driving expert.

Thank you :thumbup:

Other news, an average driver is just an average person who has no clue. They just drive point A and point B, doesn't know how to change their oil, etc... Never said I was a driving expert. I just think I understand more than the "average" driver as per what I see as an "average" driver...

Anyways, I will post a quick clip of my attempts of heel toeing. Please comment on everything you see. Yes some things I do on the road I would not be doing on the track....

Re: Heel Toe Issue - *insertusernamehere* - 06-03-2014

Your gas pedal is like...really small...

Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-03-2014

I'm a noob, noobie practice: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9up2Gixf9s&feature=youtu.be">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9up2Gi ... e=youtu.be</a><!-- m -->

Re: Heel Toe Issue - ScottyB - 06-04-2014

you're probably not going to have the 3/4 brake required to heel-toe issue if you pop a pedal cover onto your gas pedal. look at the OMP covers, they're cheap and awesome. i had to do this for my A4, clutch/brake stayed stock but i put a cover over the gas to raise it higher to the brake pedal level as well as give me an extra amount of lip on the side to bring the gas closer to the brake.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - SlimKlim - 06-04-2014

BLINGMW Wrote:Yeah, DJ, Maeng, I'm with you on the straight line braking with the clutch in (depends on the car), but I don't see how that gets you out of heel-toeing without upsetting the car. You'd still need to rev match before getting off the brake, ie, heel-toe. I must be missing something because what you're describing also doesn't allow for trail braking when a downshift is required.
Seems upsetting the car with a rough shift would be better while in a straight line, rather than trying to re-engage the drivetrain just after getting off the brakes and turning in. Now, if not going particularly fast, whatever, but I don't see how you're getting away with this DJ. :dunno:


I think in DJ's scenario he's not trail braking for the corner. I read it as rev matching right at the turn in point when he's already coming off the brake, and I guess getting the clutch out right as he crosses the apex and starts to open the wheel back up?

And yeah, Ryan, your pedals are crazy far apart, I think that FM pedal extension that I posted a link to would make it much easier to do if you don't mind drilling a couple holes through your gas pedal.

Once you get the hang of heel-toe, toe-toe, rev-matching, whatever you want to call it, you'll find yourself doing it practically 100% of the time on the street. It lets you engine brake much more effectively, reduces wear on the clutch and saves your brake pads. Also it sounds cool.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - Mike - 06-04-2014

Anyways = anyway
Than = then

No amount of driving ability is going to help you when your floor mat displaces and gets lodged under a pedal.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - BLINGMW - 06-04-2014

SlimKlim Wrote:I read it as rev matching right at the turn in point when he's already coming off the brake, and I guess getting the clutch out right as he crosses the apex and starts to open the wheel back up?
yeah I sure hope not! :?:

Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-04-2014

Mike Wrote:Anyways = anyway
Than = then

No amount of driving ability is going to help you when your floor mat displaces and gets lodged under a pedal.

Well, I have removed it so I can heel toe all the time.

I should probably get something to extend it. I'll research some thing to make it easier to heel toe like the pedals and such. Probably going to get used to toe toe on non heavy braking and heel toe on heavy braking.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - Maengelito - 06-04-2014

BLINGMW Wrote:Yeah, DJ, Maeng, I'm with you on the straight line braking with the clutch in (depends on the car), but I don't see how that gets you out of heel-toeing without upsetting the car. You'd still need to rev match before getting off the brake, ie, heel-toe. I must be missing something because what you're describing also doesn't allow for trail braking when a downshift is required.
Seems upsetting the car with a rough shift would be better while in a straight line, rather than trying to re-engage the drivetrain just after getting off the brakes and turning in. Now, if not going particularly fast, whatever, but I don't see how you're getting away with this DJ. :dunno:

I am blipping the throttle just before getting off the brakes and clutch to not upset the car, I'm just not rowing through all the gears to do so. One brake and clutch input, and one blip of the throttle before release of the clutch. I can do it seamlessly for straight line braking but sometimes I mess things up if I'm trail braking into a turn that requires a downshift. I try to get the downshift done before turn in so by the time I do turn in (even if I'm still braking), I'll have the throttle available if I need it.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - JustinG - 06-04-2014

Learn you some foot work.....

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5zSE48fy44">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5zSE48fy44</a><!-- m -->

Re: Heel Toe Issue - D_Eclipse9916 - 06-04-2014

All I will say is, watch the video. Too bad my footwell is really small and dark otherwise I would try to video it.

(and if I am not in the throttle till the apex, someone smack me :lol: )

Its tough to explain. I am telling Ryan to not worry about Heel-toe, just concentrate on acceleration and braking. Your brakes should be more than adequate to break traction under braking, engine braking does not slow you down any faster unless you arent threshold braking.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - Senor_Taylor - 06-04-2014

JustinG Wrote:Learn you some foot work.....

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5zSE48fy44">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5zSE48fy44</a><!-- m -->


You could LIVE in that footwell...

Re: Heel Toe Issue - JustinG - 06-04-2014

Go pros fish eye lenses make it very deceiving.

Re: Heel Toe Issue - BLINGMW - 06-04-2014

ok, that's what I figured. You guys ARE heel-toeing, as expected. Move along, nothing to see here. Tongue
I would agree it's not top 5 on newbie list of things to learn, but for proper operation of a manual transmission in a motorsports evironment, it is a requirement. It can get in the way when done wrong. But, as something that's easy to practice off-track, why not? :dunno:

Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-04-2014

Sometime I will learn to left foot brake. Very useful for auto-x and road racing. My car really isn't powerful enough to really worry about rev matching. But, I just want to learn how to do it so I have a nice car balance coming into turns. I don't mind making my synchros do all the work like I did last Hyperdrive.