Solar Power

[WRXtranceformed]

Any of you homeowners thought about it for your house?

I work for an energy efficient / green company so it's something I'm obviously into, but I'm starting to get more serious about it...I think it would be a great way to take advantage of the tax credits out there right now and to save money on my bills. I don't even know where to begin though. My electric bill at most is about $150/month in the height of the summer so if I had a good enough system I'm wondering if I could pay for my entire energy bill and then some.

Thoughts? Anyone done research on this? My father installed a solar hot water heater a long time ago in the house we grew up in but he removed it. I'm not sure why, I'll have to talk to him about it...I'd imagine that solar power has come a long way since they 80's though.

[Evan]

yeah Ive done lots of reading on it. i wanted to do panels on my current house, but will probably put it off until my next house.
Im no greenie weenie by a long shot, but I really like the idea of free energy as God intended it.

You should look up how your local power utlilty handles power. The easiest way is to tap into the grid so extra power you arent using is pumped back into the grid, and you get credits for any extra you pump in. Every power company is different and some dont allow you to pump back into the grid at all.
IIRC NC has a good policy on this.

"off grid" systems that use battery arrays are much more expensive to build and maintain, and are a pain in the dick.

You need to be pretty good with electricity to wire them up, and will need at least some pro electrician help.

panels are f-ing expensive unfortunately. you can get cells off of ebay with cracked or chipped glass covers (doesnt affect performance) for much cheaper but you have to build the housings yourself.

[JohnC]

I just bought some solar thermal panels, and am constructing my own thermosiphon system for hot water heating. Total cost will be < $500, and it should provide 100% of our hot water during the spring/summer/fall. At the moment, I'm not doing a liquid/liquid heat exchanger or circulation pump, so it'll have to be drained in the winter. I'll post some pics when I've got it together - hopefully before the end of the month.

I'd love to do a nice PV setup, but that's a lot of $$$ up front and a long payback time. I continue to hope prices will continue to drop. This page has a reasonably up to date listing of current prices: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm">http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm</a><!-- m -->

[HAULN-SS]

I think my highest electricty bill has been like 52$ in WV. Not sure if it's cause coal is cheap, heavily subsidized or what. It may pay off in winter, because my heating bills are ridiculous (propane), but when I looked into it, the payback period was too high, especially considering it was basically only going to be useful a few months of the year

[BLINGMW]

I work for an energy efficient / green company so it's something I'm obviously into

What company do you work for anyway?

I don't really have any good sources to point you to, though there's plenty of info out there. We recently acquired Standard Renewable Energy, and though they don't do much work around here, it appears their site has some useful information.

But in Virginia, if you're doing it to save money, the short answer is... forget it. If you're sure you'll be staying in your house for a LONG time, and can do some of the work yourself and/or have electrician and contractor contacts and friends, then, maybe. If you're doing it to be "green", costs be damned, well then more power to you!

The first thing to do is figure out details about your utilities' rate structure and as Evan mentioned, whether or not they offer net metering. If yes, that could be the difference between marginally feasible (sweet!) and hopeless.

Then just figure up your costs, find out how much $ you'd spend on the panels and inverter, compare to estimated monthly savings, and then you've at least got a starting point. My guess is that you might be able to save $50-$75 per month with a ~3 kW system. At $900/yr (let's be optimistic!), well let's just start with paying off one component of the system, a decent $3000 inverter, so there's 3 years right there.

Oh here you go, quick search, whole thing in a box:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.powersavershop.com/product/PS0053">http://www.powersavershop.com/product/PS0053</a><!-- m -->
Only $12,500
So not including labor (maybe on the order of the rebate you'd get) and hoping nothing breaks, that's 14-20 years to pay it off. Panels still have a 30yr design life AFAIK, but the inverter.... I dunno, that's a long time.

I have to give the obligatory advice that reducing usage is always a better payback (up to a point of course) than going to more exciting and "cool" solutions like PV. Insulation, lights, windows, appliances. Super exciting stuff. But much of that gets you the same rebates you're talking about, so do that stuff first.

John, maybe I will have to come back this weekend, you didn't tell me (well, not that I remember) about your solar hot water system.

[WRXtranceformed]

I work for an energy efficient / green company so it's something I'm obviously into

What company do you work for anyway?

I don't really have any good sources to point you to, though there's plenty of info out there. We recently acquired Standard Renewable Energy, and though they don't do much work around here, it appears their site has some useful information.

But in Virginia, if you're doing it to save money, the short answer is... forget it. If you're sure you'll be staying in your house for a LONG time, and can do some of the work yourself and/or have electrician and contractor contacts and friends, then, maybe. If you're doing it to be "green", costs be damned, well then more power to you!

The first thing to do is figure out details about your utilities' rate structure and as Evan mentioned, whether or not they offer net metering. If yes, that could be the difference between marginally feasible (sweet!) and hopeless.

Then just figure up your costs, find out how much $ you'd spend on the panels and inverter, compare to estimated monthly savings, and then you've at least got a starting point. My guess is that you might be able to save $50-$75 per month with a ~3 kW system. At $900/yr (let's be optimistic!), well let's just start with paying off one component of the system, a decent $3000 inverter, so there's 3 years right there.

Oh here you go, quick search, whole thing in a box:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.powersavershop.com/product/PS0053">http://www.powersavershop.com/product/PS0053</a><!-- m -->
Only $12,500
So not including labor (maybe on the order of the rebate you'd get) and hoping nothing breaks, that's 14-20 years to pay it off. Panels still have a 30yr design life AFAIK, but the inverter.... I dunno, that's a long time.

I have to give the obligatory advice that reducing usage is always a better payback (up to a point of course) than going to more exciting and "cool" solutions like PV. Insulation, lights, windows, appliances. Super exciting stuff. But much of that gets you the same rebates you're talking about, so do that stuff first.

John, maybe I will have to come back this weekend, you didn't tell me (well, not that I remember) about your solar hot water system.

Great advice. I'll have to dive more into the costs of it and find out if my energy company will allow it. That's way more expensive than some of the prices I checked out online, but I could have been looking at the wrong stuff.

I am a Marketing Director for the Charlotte branch of this company:
<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.apexenergygroup.com">www.apexenergygroup.com</a><!-- w -->

[BLINGMW]

cool, come install some windows for me (mine are sad) and and I'll come help install your PV :thumbup:

Well show me what you're looking at, what I found was the first thing that popped up. If you could cut the costs in half, maybe you'd have something. Keep in mind I estimated simple payback, so the numbers are even worse than that assuming you don't have $10k+ sitting around with no way to earn interest on it.

[CaptainHenreh]

My dad installed a "DIY" PV system in Haiti, using marine batteries, HF PV panels, and an inverter. For those people anything is better than nothing (they were using a generator for their electricity), but I'll have to ask him if there's an update on how it's worked out.

[missmotocross3]

I think Solar Energy is a great way to save some money. Upfront it is a fairly big investment, but you save money in the long run (maybe like 10 years down the road).

On another note...Lee, I see you work for Apex Energy. Is there any connections you have there, where you could possibly get Mark a job there? He's submitted his resume a million times, and has tons of wind energy experience (and an ISAT degree). Just wondering if you could help a fellow MM'er out in the job search.

[WRXtranceformed]

I think Solar Energy is a great way to save some money. Upfront it is a fairly big investment, but you save money in the long run (maybe like 10 years down the road).

On another note...Lee, I see you work for Apex Energy. Is there any connections you have there, where you could possibly get Mark a job there? He's submitted his resume a million times, and has tons of wind energy experience (and an ISAT degree). Just wondering if you could help a fellow MM'er out in the job search.

I am in charge of hiring down here so yes Have him forward his resume to me and I'll talk to him more about the entry-level positions we have available here: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:lsemmes@apexenergygroup.com">lsemmes@apexenergygroup.com</a><!-- e -->

[WRXtranceformed]

cool, come install some windows for me (mine are sad) and and I'll come help install your PV :thumbup:

Well show me what you're looking at, what I found was the first thing that popped up. If you could cut the costs in half, maybe you'd have something. Keep in mind I estimated simple payback, so the numbers are even worse than that assuming you don't have $10k+ sitting around with no way to earn interest on it.

Ahh man you don't actually want me installing windows haha...I just sell / distribute them :lol: We have really really good dedicated teams that do our installs for us though. If you lived closer to Charlotte I could help you out, but if you live within a 75 mile radius of DC, we have a branch up there that I can send you on to.

This is the website I just found with a quick Google search. It looks like you can buy some cheap DIY kits but I don't know what all components you need for a full integration into the power grid (or like some of you guys are saying, whether or not I can do it at all in this area). <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.solarhome.org/">http://www.solarhome.org/</a><!-- m -->

[missmotocross3]

I think Solar Energy is a great way to save some money. Upfront it is a fairly big investment, but you save money in the long run (maybe like 10 years down the road).

On another note...Lee, I see you work for Apex Energy. Is there any connections you have there, where you could possibly get Mark a job there? He's submitted his resume a million times, and has tons of wind energy experience (and an ISAT degree). Just wondering if you could help a fellow MM'er out in the job search.

I am in charge of hiring down here so yes Have him forward his resume to me and I'll talk to him more about the entry-level positions we have available here: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:lsemmes@apexenergygroup.com">lsemmes@apexenergygroup.com</a><!-- e -->

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! I forwarded him the message and he will be sending you his resume at some point today. :thumbup:

[WRXtranceformed]

Hahaha...I tried using this calculator: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.findsolar.com/index.php?page=rightforme">http://www.findsolar.com/index.php?page=rightforme</a><!-- m --> to figure out how much I'll need to spend on a system. I used a round electricity figure of $100 and to recoup 100% of that it's telling me I need to spend $40k+ after incentives on a system?? Yeah I'm not so interested now... that can't be right?

[BLINGMW]

Like I mentioned, in this area, it sucks. If you want to make $100 worth of electricity a month, you could easily double my first estimate in upfront costs and system size. It's not:

a great way to save some money

Take half that money and cut your utility bills with better insulation, lights, windows from your company and the other boring stuff, and put the other half in an IRA. If you want to spend $10k+ on something "cool" that will actually have a reasonable payback, get a ground source heat pump installed. That's high on my list if I manage to build a house one day.

Hey, do you have any LED bulbs? That's the new hotness. But they're still changing a lot so do your research or you might end up with something that has a terrible CRI and/or dies quickly. Try a few and replace some lights you leave on often, it's another huge step in savings over CFLs.

[WRXtranceformed]

The vast majority of my electric bill is my AC system. During the winter months my energy bill drops down to maybe $40. I might try out LED bulbs though, I figure the next step besides the windows would be energy efficient appliances. It's hard for me to justify all that stuff though because my house is only like 5 years old.

[Evan]

LED lightbulbs suck so bad it hurts.

i bought a couple when my CFLs kept blowing, and they are terrible

[BLINGMW]

LED lightbulbs suck so bad it hurts.

Yeah I haven't been brave enough to try them yet, most probably do suck. I had a conversation with one guy recently whose been trying various brands and showed me a picture of some he put above the bathroom mirror and they were good enough that his wife didn't even notice. That's pretty much my test too! I don't remember what they were, but good ones are out there apparently. :dunno:

It's hard for me to justify all that stuff though because my house is only like 5 years old.

Yeah that's a pretty important point, you certainly don't want to go replacing perfectly good stuff. Probably all that's reasonable is double checking insulation if you don't know or haven't verified what was used, doubling up in a few places, some builders skimp on that and it could be costing you.

[WRXtranceformed]

For sure. Fortunately I bought this house from a buddy of mine who was a construction manager for the company I used to work for (like I was) so there's a ton of extra blown insulation in the attic (I have seriously like 20+ inches) and some extra goodies that were done. During the wintertime I can still feel cold air blowing through some of the sockets on floor 2 of 3 so I may pull those off and foam behind them like the electricians should have done.

[Evan]

LED lightbulbs suck so bad it hurts.

Yeah I haven't been brave enough to try them yet, most probably do suck. I had a conversation with one guy recently whose been trying various brands and showed me a picture of some he put above the bathroom mirror and they were good enough that his wife didn't even notice. That's pretty much my test too! I don't remember what they were, but good ones are out there apparently. :dunno:

yeah I havent bought the $50 ones, I think mine were $10

LED light is very directional. great for flashlights, not great for ambient light.

as of right now, CFL still put out more lumens per watt (by a factor of several iirc)
BUT i think LED tech is going to explode in the next 10 years and we should have some good options by then

[ViPER1313]

LED lightbulbs suck so bad it hurts.

i bought a couple when my CFLs kept blowing, and they are terrible

+1 . My girlfriend's parent's have them all over the house. They are super directional and put out no light after a short period of time (get dimmer with age...)