Job searching again

[HAULN-SS]

Any of you guys ever worked for booz allen? I had interviews with them yesterday. They went well, and I talked with like 4 managers and a partner. And one other guy who kind of scared me when he said "we don't really do 40 hour weeks here"

I'm not sure if that applies to everyone, or maybe he was more of a business person, or what.
I think I'll probably get 2 offers out of the interviews, but I am trying to find out about that work-life balance. I've had a few people tell me it's great and I need to get on there, and a couple people tell me to beware.

[WRXtranceformed]

I want to say Evan worked for them...

[Apoc]

I've known a few people who have worked for Booz and they said that pretty much everyone there lives for their jobs. It depends on the area you work in, but 50-60 hours a week are not uncommon. I think they throw the cash around pretty loosely, so if you work hard you get paid. If you want to bust your ass and work a lot to make a shit ton of cash, work there. If you want a 40-45 hour a week work/life balance, don't. YMMV.

[.RJ]

I'm working with BAH on a project for the past few months, and I've worked with them (not for them) in the past. I dont think I could ever work there, it seems like a big, stifling organization and I dont think I would ever really fit into that type of culture (the old boy/happy hour/golf networking). That said, the small group I'm working now with has turned out to be pretty good and laid back and so I guess it really depends on who you're working for within the company.

[CaptainHenreh]

Have you ever caused a huge mess with important documents flying all over an office just to get a paper airplane that you should have been more careful with off the top of a filing cabinet?

If so, you're perfect for Booz.

[Evan]

I want to say Evan worked for them...

yes. I hated it, and left in 6 months. But Booz Allen isnt really 1 big company, but 100s of small companies.
The manager of that small company lied to me about what I would be doing, and I ended up going from vauge mismanaged project with no goals to a graveyard project that was failing and nobody wanted to work for, so I left.

if you find a good group to work with, I think they can be a very good company. benefits are good. pay should be good but not great. I never had to do crazy hours but that could change depending on the group. They do have a repuatation for wringing you dry.

I think Ive said this before, but the way to make money as a programmer is to find an in-demand specialty. SAP, Enterprise Search, Sharepoint, BI, etc. Being a 'regular' java or .net programmer and you will be pretty underpaid, even if youre experienced.

[JohnC]

I worked for Booz Allen, right out of JMU. Pay/benefits were great, but the corporate culture was, as RJ said, stifling. I burnt out on that (and NoVA in general) pretty quickly. I'm glad to have had that experience, but I'd never do it again.

[Apoc]

I'm sure it's not really like this, but this is how I envision places like Booz. :lol:

[Mike]

nope, nobody is nearly that cool.

yes, i realize none of those people are cool.

it's a bunch of balding workaholics who think they're working for some greater good. and they are... the greater good of executive's bank accounts.

[HAULN-SS]

Well, I put in for them after urging from a friend of mine. I asked for stupid amounts of money, because I had kind of heard the rumors of long working hours and stuff. And they will have to re-pay me for some tuition expenses i'll need if i leave lockheed.

The thing about interviewing for any new company in this industry they can't really give me too many details on the jobs. I think that I will demand to know some specifics, because I definitely don't want to work on stupid projects, failing projects, etc.

I think they knew that they had a culture problem, because more than one person I was interviewing with was pushing this idea of "they used to be X..now they're moving to a Y organization"..X being stifling, Y being less so.


I put out my resume last thursday and have 4 interviews this week. I think that there is a lot of work out there, but I have a lot of options to weigh. I think booz is the biggest company i will interview with, and I had lunch with the co-founder of a 20 person startup. Interviews tomorrow and friday with a ~60 person place, and a ~200 person place. That last one sounded promising in the job req.

It's seems like in general, for some of those really small (<100) places, they have to do much better on benefits and pay to make it worth the risk of going to a small place, does that seem reasonable to everyone? The 20 person startup gives 7 weeks vacation, and according to the co-founder "is extremely competitive on pay, and doesnt mess around with small bonuses"

[.RJ]

The extremes with small companies will be bigger. When things are good, they're good for everyone - and likewise with the bad.

There's been a pretty big shift in the group I work for in the past year or so. Its not a happy place to work right now.

[Apoc]

pushing this idea of "they used to be X..now they're moving to a Y organization"

I've heard that at every interview I've been on. Sometimes it's true, but usually it isn't.

[.RJ]

usually it isn't.

We have been reorganized about 8 times. Same old shit.

[Sijray21]

Booz is planning on going public soon, just an FYI. The nice benefits may go away and, like evan said, it depends on who you work for in Booz. I have a lot of friends that work for booz and i think their HR process sucks....bad. multi-page write-ups for your evaluation and your boss has to pretty much have to fight for your raise in-front of a board/committee. Having said that, their current benefits are pretty nice.

[HAULN-SS]

Yeah - I kind of gathered that it might be dependent on who you work for. I had a couple of real up tight people that I interviewed with, but that partner I interviewed with seemed real laid back.

LM does the same thing on any out of cycle raises, promotions, etc - big fight for the manager. That part sucks, hard.

But I threw out a ridiculous starting pay, so I wouldnt really care about that too much, at least not for a few years.

Had an interview today for a job with that small-ish company that is about 60 people. It went really well, the job seems very interesting and makes full use of my educational background and experience. I'd be the sole liason to this particular customer set, for now, and when more people were sent there, they'd essentially be my peons. That's something I have been looking for as well...some leadership roles. It seems like that might be easier to find in smaller companies

[HAULN-SS]

Thoughts on putting one bid vs. another up, when the two companies are trying to bring you on? Kosher? Acceptable practice? How to go about it?

[Apoc]

Thoughts on putting one bid vs. another up, when the two companies are trying to bring you on? Kosher? Acceptable practice? How to go about it?

Very acceptable, just need to make sure you play it right so you don't end up with no offers left on the table. There are a ton of decent how-to articles floating around the internet on the subject.

[WRXtranceformed]

Is your industry that desperate for new employees that they're literally fighting over bids for new hires? That is ridiculous if so. I can understand negotiating your salary with one company, but to get in a bidding war over an employee would be a blessing for a worker in this economy. If you try to do that in most industries with most companies right now you know what they're going to tell you....fuck you, we'll hire the guy behind you.

[Sijray21]

Depending on his level of clearance and skill set I wouldn't be surprised. If that is the case, he's in a great position.

[HAULN-SS]

Well I interviwed with 4 companies last week. Two of the jobs were most preferable to me, and I think I'll get an offer from both of them. If so, those two I would take the higher one. If an offer comes in for one of the lesser jobs i want, but which i suspect would be the higher offer, it would be nice to even that up to get the money. One company though already had me meet with their HR people, and they are trying to woo me with benefits. Their big one being a 401k where if I put in 4%, they put in 10%, and no health care premiums. The latter I could see being a big bonus if I had a family or several dependents, but since I don't its not that big of a deal, and I'd rather have the money.