What does Lotus need?

[G.Irish]

I've read a few articles recently that say that Lotus' owner, Proton, wants to expand the brand and compete with the likes of Ferrari, Porsche, and Aston Martin. Just today Autoblog had a little blurb about how Lotus wants to hire Bob Lutz and some BMW guy with a sex offender last name (Tom Purves) as consultants.

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So what is it that Lotus actually needs? What products do they need to offer? What does their marketing need to look like?

For me, I hope that Lotus stays true its core of creating light performance cars. By doing that, they will remain unique among manufacturers. As far as their product offerings I'm thinking they need to choose a target in the market and make that the focus of their brand. Bring back the Espirit and aim it squarely at either the 458 or the 911 turbo or GT3. Spend your marketing budget on beating Ferrari and Porsche in GT racing in order to reestablish the marque as a serious competitor.

After that, develop an Elise/Exige successor and, maybe fill out the lineup with a front-engined GT. Source engines from whoever it makes sense to. If it were me I'd put a Honda K-series in the Exige and maybe give the bigger cars Corvette power. If Lotus can build its own engine then they should develop a flat-crank V8, preferably naturally aspirated. Maybe get Cosworth to help design it.

[WRXtranceformed]

Definitely more torque and better refinement on their newer cars like the Evora. Whether that be through twin-turbo V6s like the Germans or V8 power like the Americans.

[BLINGMW]

Spend your marketing budget on beating Ferrari and Porsche in GT racing in order to reestablish the marque as a serious competitor.

Seems like that would be it. Not an easy task, and the payoff would likely not be immediate, but I think that's what made those names legendary. Loads and loads of money thrown at big time motorsport. Unfortunately, Lotus kind of fell out of motorsport in the '90s, and the Lotus Racing team that's in this year's F1 is apparently only vaguely related.

Maybe now's a good time for re-entry into F1 or Le Mans while everyone's struggling with $$?

And heavily fund a spec Elise series for some grassroots support? Sell some stripped, unregistered shells and crate motors at cost, throw some prize $$ in there, and wipe out all the languishing low(er) buck formula (Ford, Vee, Spec Ford) series :thumbup:

[ScottyB]

i'd say don't fold over like a bunch of limpwrists and try to appease everyone by making an SUV or some giant 4-door bar of soap like porsche. stay true to the core and why they're unique. there are a few brands that do it and they have survived because of it (take Morgan, they have some ridiculous waiting list and their cars are made of wood just like the 30's).

build the new elise and exige as staples, keep the 911-fighter evora and some kind of evora-R with another 100+ horsies, put something in the mix with the R8/Gallardo/Ferrari/GT2 and maybe head back downmarket to a simple miata fighter ala the old elan (minus the fwd).

i like the idea of an elise cup, get into a high publicity race like LeMans, and i'd like to see evoras in ALMS if budget permits after all that.

[Goodspeed]

Am I the only one who thinks that Lotus doesn't need to do anything? They got the flyweight segment to themselves almost, why bother with other junk?

[Mike]

Because they're a business and the flyweight segment probably doesn't sustain [or grow] a business too well. Just a guess; I could very well be wrong.

[fiveoh2go]

Am I the only one who thinks that Lotus doesn't need to do anything? They got the flyweight segment to themselves almost, why bother with other junk?

This ^


Do one thing and do it well.

[Goodspeed]

Because they're a business and the flyweight segment probably doesn't sustain [or grow] a business too well. Just a guess; I could very well be wrong.

Looks like they prospered pretty well with Elise-based stuff from the 90's to today - I doubt the Esprit was ever really profitable. Profits - Don't forget the amount of suspension/handling consulting they do as well.

IMO, if you're a specialist in lightweights, as the sports car paradigm shifts to light weight/smaller cars (even Ferrari/Lambo taking notice of this), moving to heavier segments doesn't make a ton of sense.

Plus, at least where I'm coming from, "un-focused" off-shoots like the Cayenne/Panamera, even if they're very good and profitable cars, just kind of suck to me (I'm no fan of the Evora, and the Europa is kind of a failure).

[Mike]

and the Europa is kind of a failure).

But it didn't have to be! I'm sure they still have the tooling around for this somewhere... Maybe?

[WRXtranceformed]

Well, there's a difference in having a lightweight stripped out car that has a niche market segment vs a lightweight car with a lot of power that more rich people are going to want to buy to keep up with their buddies in their 911 Turbos, etc.

Such as:



Not to hate on the Elise because it's a fantastic car, but I don't feel like building stripped out cars with 1.8L engines is what's going to carry a company into the future of the sports car market. I don't think the Evora is going to do it either. They've got the suspension and weight dialed in, just add some boost and displacement and a bucket of interior refinement and you've got a competitor to Porsche, BMW, etc.

[Maengelito]

Spend your marketing budget on beating Ferrari and Porsche in GT racing in order to reestablish the marque as a serious competitor.

Seems like that would be it. Not an easy task, and the payoff would likely not be immediate, but I think that's what made those names legendary. Loads and loads of money thrown at big time motorsport. Unfortunately, Lotus kind of fell out of motorsport in the '90s, and the Lotus Racing team that's in this year's F1 is apparently only vaguely related.

Maybe now's a good time for re-entry into F1 or Le Mans while everyone's struggling with $$?

I think backing up your brand with results at the racetrack would probably be the most effective way. I don't know if its the most cost-effective way though.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Because they're a business and the flyweight segment probably doesn't sustain [or grow] a business too well. Just a guess; I could very well be wrong.

:thumbup:

Don't look at it from an enthusiast perspective, look at it from a business perspective. They have an incredibly small lineup of vehicles meaning they are incredibly niche. If the lightweight sports segment flails, they are in some SERIOUS hurt, just like the american industry focused on just the truck market because it was popular. You cant put all your eggs in one basket and hope for the best.

Secondly, you should know the business motto on growth: "if your not growing, your failing." Stagnant growth does nothing for a company. Shares will not rise and will fall if there is no growth, (this is a source of capital for all those motorsports activities you want them to do, along with R+D marketing etc etc.).
Lotus is not like Morgan, it is NOT wanted by wealthy people, its a cool exercise and a fast miata, but wealthy people will not buy them now and into the future. They want their nameplates, lambo, porsche, mercedes. A lotus has no stats to make their neighbors go ooohh.

[Kaan]

1. build something to take on the 4 door civic and in that price range...
2. build something to take on the 4 door BMW... and dominate the 1 series
3. never give up on your roots, the light weight quick cars

[Ken]

1. build something to take on the 4 door civic and in that price range...
2. build something to take on the 4 door BMW... and dominate the 1 series
3. never give up on your roots, the light weight quick cars

Agreed on 2 and 3. Not point one however.

[G.Irish]

Not to hate on the Elise because it's a fantastic car, but I don't feel like building stripped out cars with 1.8L engines is what's going to carry a company into the future of the sports car market. I don't think the Evora is going to do it either. They've got the suspension and weight dialed in, just add some boost and displacement and a bucket of interior refinement and you've got a competitor to Porsche, BMW, etc.

I agree that they can't get it done with just the Elise and Evora but I think they need to keep it simple if they make a car to go against 911 class competitors. No forced induction. It adds weight, complexity, takes up more space, generates more heat, and reduces drivability. If the choice was between a 6 cylinder turbo engine or a n/a V8 the V8 is a no-brainer IMO.

Lotus is not like Morgan, it is NOT wanted by wealthy people, its a cool exercise and a fast miata, but wealthy people will not buy them now and into the future. They want their nameplates, lambo, porsche, mercedes. A lotus has no stats to make their neighbors go ooohh.

Exactly. Not that there's anything wrong with that if you're happy with your niche but Lotus apparently is not. So how to build prestige?

1. Build product that can take on prestigious cars in performance
2. Design cars that are sexy enough in exterior and interior looks to compete with Ferrari, Porsche, etc.
3. Upgrade your dealer network and marketing to reflect your premium/exotic aspirations
4. Beat the segment leaders in racing

I figure you could do 1-3 in your 4 to 5 year plan, the last item will take 4-8 years to realistically achieve given that Lotus doesn't currently have a GT racing contender in their stable.

They could jump into Le Mans prototypes or Formula 1 right now but neither would be a good use of their money right now. Audi and Peugeot are at the top of LMP1 right now, and beating them won't help much in the brand cachet department. Acura is in LMP2 but that's not a worthy target either. There's no chance of Lotus being able to invest enough money and assembly a good enough team in F1 to beat any of the heavy hitters so they shouldn't even bother. Now in the case of Le Mans things could change but right now a prototype car isn't the way to go IMO. Use that money to build their 911-killer.

[Evan]

Developing a new car is an extremely expensive investment. The luxury sports car market is already saturated with very good cars and very good brands. If Lotus developed a $100k+ car and it didnt do well, it could kill the company.
Not worth the risk, not even close.

A more inexpensive, exotic looking car like the elise/exige will always do better volume and is more recession proof than $100k+, $200k+ sports car market.

[G.Irish]

Certainly true. If Lotus invested a ton of money into a new car and failed they could very well end up bankrupt. But, for the sake of discussion I'm assuming Proton has the money to fund an expansion. If trying to expand would put them in such a precarious financial position that slow sales would sink the ship then I'd agree it'd be better not to try to do a higher-spec supercar right now.

Maybe Scotty's idea of developing a hotted up Evora might be the way to go for the near to mid-term future. Right off the top I think the car has the handling it needs but it's let down by a weak engine. There are plenty of other 3.5L V6's that make more than 276 hp they could be using that would help it compete with the lower spec 911's, the Cayman, and what-not. Or they could just supercharge it, which I suppose would be a safer bet than turbocharging.

[ScottyB]

Lotus is not like Morgan, it is NOT wanted by wealthy people, its a cool exercise and a fast miata, but wealthy people will not buy them now and into the future. They want their nameplates, lambo, porsche, mercedes. A lotus has no stats to make their neighbors go ooohh.

yeah, you can't directly compare the companies. i guess what i was aiming at is that lotus is specifically known for certain car-specific traits (excellent chassis/handling/light weight) which is what carries the brand, not prestige, or name recognition for example. Morgan exudes certain car-specific traits as well which is why i think they're still around. the markets they play in are entirely different though, as you mentioned.

and if i was their neighbor i'd still be all like ooohh

[HAULN-SS]

I think the problem they have is their price point. I think it's strange that a 20 year old making 10$ an hour, living at home with his parents can buy one a few years old, that still looks as flashy as a brand new one. Not many cars that they would want to compete with that can make that claim. Could they possibly do better with same cars, different engine, but just price them higher?

[G.Irish]

I think the problem they have is their price point. I think it's strange that a 20 year old making 10$ an hour, living at home with his parents can buy one a few years old, that still looks as flashy as a brand new one. Not many cars that they would want to compete with that can make that claim. Could they possibly do better with same cars, different engine, but just price them higher?

You can't afford an Elise on $10 an hour unless it's salvage garbage but it's true that you don't need to be making a huge amount of money to afford a used one. But I think you can kind of say the same of Porsche. A twenty-something with a not particularly lucrative job could afford a used Boxster or even 911 that looks the same as the current Boxster or 911 to the layperson.

I guess a big question is how exclusive are the powers that be at Lotus aiming for? Porsche-level is one thing, Ferrari level is a whole 'nother thing.