Traction Control and the AMA

[.RJ]

AMA released this statement on 05/30...

(FYI - front wheel speed sensors have never been allowed in AMA)

AMA Pro Racing will cease to police traction control in the Superbike class starting with this weekendÔÇÖs fifth round of the AMA Superbike Championship, a source familiar with the decision said.

The action will be taken for the rest of this season, the source, who asked not to be identified, said. The decision on whether to continue to allow traction control in 2007 and beyond will be based on the outcome of the Superbike commission meeting in Rome early next week.

The immediate affect will be a boost to Parts Unlimited Ducati, which has used a Magneti Marelli traction-control system during tests, but isnÔÇÖt allowed to race it under the current AMA rules. The advantage in lap times is about a second to a second and a half, itÔÇÖs believed, depending on the track.

With the benefit of the system, Xerox DucatiÔÇÖs Troy Bayliss is running away with the World Superbike title and Airwaves Ducatis are one-two in the British Superbike series, which also allows traction control. ItÔÇÖs only in the U.S. that Ducati has struggled this year.

Parts Unlimited DucatiÔÇÖs Ben Bostrom said that heÔÇÖd rather see it banned completely, which would allow his dirt-tracking style to flourish.

ÔÇ£I really like sliding the bike,ÔÇØ he said. ÔÇ£If everyone else didnÔÇÖt have it on already, it would be pretty nice. The bikes are sideways, smoking the tire.ÔÇØ

But he acknowledged there are places at Road America where it would be beneficial.

ÔÇ£ItÔÇÖs not easy getting on some of the straightaways and itÔÇÖs definitely not easy coming around that Carousel,ÔÇØ he said. ÔÇ£Coming off turn 14, that last corner, thereÔÇÖs tire wear to be saved.ÔÇØ

And he also said that there are a number of AMA tracks, including Barber Motorsports Park, where it would be helpful.

Kawasaki embarked on an entirely new Superbike project this year and the ZX10R is very much a work in progress. Allowing traction control, which means fitting a front-wheel sensor, means more work for the team.

Kawasaki team manager Mike Preston was less concerned with traction control than how it was implemented.

ÔÇ£My biggest concern is the AMA,ÔÇØ he said. ÔÇ£Again, their credibility is shot. I was told face to face thereÔÇÖd be no more rules changes, nothing would be happening until we get some new people running the AMA.ÔÇØ

The AMA announced on February 18 that the Pro Racing Board was being abolished and that it would be replaced by ÔÇ£a new rulemaking procedure for its professional-racing programs.ÔÇØ The Pro Racing Board would ÔÇ£be replaced by independent working committees that will propose equipment standards and rules for on-track competition. Proposed rules would then be ratified by the AMA Board of Directors.ÔÇØ

Since those committees have never been announced, and the manufacturers had no say in this rule change, the AMA has chosen to act unilaterally, without regard for the stakeholders.

ÔÇ£I was told by people very high above, until we get this under control, no rules changes,ÔÇØ Preston said.

Preston was among the race team members who attended last weekendÔÇÖs meeting at Infineon Raceway where traction control, among other things, was discussed. No decision was taken, he said, because of the impending Superbike commission meeting in Rome.

ÔÇ£Maybe they want to get rid of it,ÔÇØ Preston said. ÔÇ£We donÔÇÖt really have a rules committee.ÔÇØ

Messages left on the cell phones of the AMAÔÇÖs Director of Communication Kerry Graeber and Road Race Series Manager Ron Barrick, and on BarrickÔÇÖs home phone, werenÔÇÖt returned.

Then 06/01 issued this statement......

The following information is in response to recent media reports regarding the status of traction control rules in AMA Superbike.

AMA Pro Racing remains committed to the enforcement of all rules specified in the AMA Superbike Championship Rulebook.

As stated on page 36 of the 2006 rulebook, Telemetry and Traction Control are prohibited (Section E, General Equipment Standards, subsection 23). AMA Pro Racing technical staff will continue to perform routine pre- and post-race technical inspection of selected equipment. Any machine suspected of utilizing prohibited traction control devices is subject to impounding for further technical evaluation at AMA headquarters (Section C, Equipment Offenses and Penalties, subsection 2, page 61.)

AMA Pro Racing also remains committed to the proactive governance of new and emerging technology as it relates to its racing disciplines. The newly formed AMA Racing Standing Committee will evaluate such technology on an ongoing basis and provide strategic counsel to the AMA Board of Directors. Additionally, as part of AMA Pro RacingÔÇÖs new rulesmaking procedures announced in February, all new rules and changes to existing rules will be scrutinized by discipline-specific rulesmaking committees before being forwarded to the AMA Board of Directors for ratification. Any changes to traction control regulations fall under this procedure.

They're like a monkey fucking a football, again. Complete disorganization, completely unacceptable for a professional racing organiztion.

This video:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7395159739247032972">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9247032972</a><!-- m --> ( which was posted here - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jun/0600601a.htm">http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jun/0600601a.htm</a><!-- m --> )

Pretty clearly shows that suzuki is using some form of TC in their bikes.

This editorial from Mat Mladin talks more on TC and the Suzuki

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/May/060530-66.htm">http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/May/060530-66.htm</a><!-- m -->

There has been a bit going on lately in regards to traction control. Can somebody please tell me why we shouldn't be using traction control? The whole idea of racing in the first place is to develop tomorrow's street bikes for the consumer

This right here is a load of shit, and a way only to allow the factory run teams to get on the podium - and even then, many of the teams will have to pay for it. You do not need a racetrack to develop TC for the street - many things that have not been used in racing are seen developed for streetbikes, such ABS on the VFR800.

In WSBK the Hondas do not have TC, and HRC has only offered to develop a system at a very hefty cost. All of the honda teams are considering trying to develop and implement it together to spread the cost out. This is very apparent at the end of the race watching Toseland slide the hell out of his rear tire on corner exit. Ducati is using TC, but they are also using the same Magneto Marelli electronics package as the Ducati Moto GP team.

While racing is expensive and always going to consume cubic dollars of testing and development cost, allowing a TC system is going to place those teams that can develop at at a significant advantage over those that cannot develop one and will force the privateers out of superbike.

[scottcj]

I tend to think TC is the future of motorcycles and by not allowing it the AMA is kind of turning a blind eye towards future developments. I do agree though that the cost would be prohibitive for privateers although that can be eliminated by only allowing TC in Superbike and FX...keeping the privateers in superstock and supersport (the class structure in AMA is a whole other can of worms however). That way the factories can compete in more competitive classes and draft privateers from the support classes.

[.RJ]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.speedtv.com/articles/motogp/moto/25599/">http://www.speedtv.com/articles/motogp/moto/25599/</a><!-- m -->

[.RJ]

And one more..

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/25419/">http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/25419/</a><!-- m -->

[.RJ]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.crash.net/news_view.asp?cid=5&id=132075">http://www.crash.net/news_view.asp?cid=5&id=132075</a><!-- m -->

(WSBK) Ten Kate debuts traction control!

I doubt they'll catch Nitro Nori or Bayliss though... the rest of the year will be exciting to watch!

[.RJ]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/26146/">http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/26146/</a><!-- m --> - and part III of the speed news story....

[.RJ]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/26146/ - and part III of the speed news story....

The factor that used to control how long your career was, was how long you were prepared to race on the absolute edge. You knew that if you kept pushing the thing would snap and you wouldnÔÇÖt always catch it. Our traction control was kinda how much your last crash was still hurting you - Kevin Schwantz, on the 500cc GP bikes

[G.Irish]

Our traction control was kinda how much your last crash was still hurting you - Kevin Schwantz, on the 500cc GP bikes

That's my favorite quote from the article. Colin Edwards said something about that awhile back. He was saying that he really didn't think he'd be racing past the age of 32 but now that the bikes (the 4 stroke 990's) aren't launching people 20 feet in the air like the 500cc 2-strokes did he could probably last longer.

[Ross]

Our traction control was kinda how much your last crash was still hurting you - Kevin Schwantz, on the 500cc GP bikes

That's my favorite quote from the article. Colin Edwards said something about that awhile back. He was saying that he really didn't think he'd be racing past the age of 32 but now that the bikes (the 4 stroke 990's) aren't launching people 20 feet in the air like the 500cc 2-strokes did he could probably last longer.

Bikes are just experiencing the same thing that F1 has been going through for quite some time. No sense in moaning about the past.

[G.Irish]

A pertinent video: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7395159739247032972&q=superbike">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... =superbike</a><!-- m -->

[.RJ]

A pertinent video: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7395159739247032972&q=superbike">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... =superbike</a><!-- m -->

Repost

[.RJ]

What a disaster.. How do you spell "waffle" ? I bet it starts with a... m... a...

Moto GP teams dont even look at America for talent anymore. Maybe if the AMA wasnt a joke.......

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jul/060717ij2.htm">http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jul/060717ij2.htm</a><!-- m -->

AMA Release On Traction Control
AMA Tech Director: "...traction control on production motorcycles is imminent."
by staff
Monday, July 17, 2006
This just in from the AMA:

AMA ROAD RACE RULES COMMITTEE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVES RULE CHANGE


PICKERINGTON, Ohio (July 17, 2006) -- AMA Pro Racing announced today that the newly-formed Road Race Rules Committee unanimously approved a change to the rule regarding traction control in the AMA Superbike Championship.


The rule change, announced this morning via an AMA Pro Racing Competition Bulletin, reads as follows:


Effectively immediately replace E.23A, pg 36 with:
a. For Superstock and Supersport, any form of engine control system that can actively change the performance/acceleration of the engine using input from any sensors that are not OEM on the motorcycle, to create a situation of better traction at the rear wheel at any time while the motorcycle is being ridden is prohibited.


The rule change effectively legalizes the use of traction control devices in the AMA Superbike and AMA Formula Xtreme classes while limiting the application of such devices in the AMA Supersport and AMA Superstock classes.

"It is our belief, and one that was echoed by each member of the rules committee, is that we should continue to limit the use of traction control devices in the stock classes but open it up in the modified classes," said AMA Pro Racing Director of Technical Development, Kevin Crowther. "This rule change is consistent with the spirit of our class rules and objectively recognizes the current state of development of this emerging technology."


Crowther pointed out that OEM application of traction control on production motorcycles is imminent.

Under new AMA Pro Racing rules making guidelines, rules are proposed by a discipline-specific rules committee then forwarded to the AMA Board of Directors for ratification. The Road Race Rules Committee held its inaugural meeting last Thursday at AMA headquarters in Pickerington, Ohio where the committee voted to not only approve this specific rule but also that the board approve its immediate implementation.

"Everyone agreed that this rule change was important enough to have it implemented immediately," confirmed Crowther. "We're happy that the committee acted quickly and was supported decisively by the board."

[Ginger]

Monkey, meet Football...

[G.Irish]

What a disaster.. How do you spell "waffle" ? I bet it starts with a... m... a...

Moto GP teams dont even look at America for talent anymore. Maybe if the AMA wasnt a joke.......

I don't think that's true at all. Right now there's really only one young gun who seems to have what it takes to succeed at the next level. But even then, I think Ben Spies would be better served in WSBK than Moto GP.

When you think about it AMASBK is only a national series, not unlike BSB or Japan's Superbike series. You don't really see Moto GP scouting BSB for talent and their series is much better than AMASBK. Moto GP will pull from WSBK when there's someone who's young and exceptionally talented like Vermeulen but he's pretty much the only young gun from WSBK in recent years. All the other young guys go the 250 route.

But yeah AMA is a joke, it will take awhile for it to improve if it does at all. Luckily we'll finally see all 5 sportbike manufacturers in SBK next year.

[Ginger]

Moto GP will pull from WSBK when there's someone who's young and exceptionally talented like Vermeulen but he's pretty much the only young gun from WSBK in recent years

We could mention the likes of Hodgson, Xaus, Bayliss and Shakey here (who were entries for both Ducati & Aprilia's debut years). I think team leaders learned their lesson about scouting for talent among the general winners crowd in WSBK after that round - seeing as how all the riders listed that made the jump had very short lived Top-Series Careers. Edwards deserves credit for having such good staying power, coming in at the same time, but he's had his share of difficulties and has had to completely reinvent his riding style to make a shot at being competitive.

AMA runner Hayden seems to be the exception among national winners, as far as competition in GP in concerned. You could say that Hopkins is also an exception, also coming from the AMA, but his career has been pretty much a flop thus far. Yes, he's on a shite bike, but, as Julian Ryder pointed out: "the best riders will always win in the end. It may not be by so much, but they will find a way."

We could point out Mladin as a source of failure. Some folks might argue that that's an unfair comparison because he's such a well performing rider now. Unforunately it doesn't make a lick of difference to a GP team owner if you're competitive at thirty something if you're not by your mid 20's. They make a very large investment in the riders and want a return on them... if it takes years upon years they won't be happy folks. When guys like Pedrose can come in and be competitive in year one it doesn't make sense to sink 5 or 6 into somebody like Matt with hopes that he'll make it.

Maybe the solution, if we really want to see more American talent in GP, is to start sending our youngsters overseas for one-two-five...

[.RJ]

You could say that Hopkins is also an exception, also coming from the AMA, but his career has been pretty much a flop thus far.

I'm not so sure.

He joined on with Suzuki after Gibby the clown had been on the 4-stroke bike for a year and had not made any progress at all with it, and for the first year he really was just the 2nd rider. Now that he's the lead rider on the team, he developed the bike with the team over the winter and he has gotten some pretty good results with a 2nd rate bike, and 2nd rate tires. I'm sure that if Rossi had signed on with 'zuki and brought Burgess with him then Suzuki would be winning now instead of Yamaha.

Then again, when your bike has 13 engine failures in one weekend it may chip away at your confidence a bit. Maybe Hopper kicking the bike on TV helped them get their shit together

If he were on a Honda I dont know that his results would be better than Hayden or Melandri, but I think you would see similar performane to where he's at now - just that he wouldnt start going backwards halfway through the race.

[G.Irish]

Notice I said "young" guns. Edwards, Bayliss, Hodgson, Abe, Byrne, Xaus, and Haga were all not young when they went to GP, and all of them but Bayliss and Edwards got on crappy rides. And of that group, only Bayliss, Edwards, and Hodgson had won the WSBK championship. I don't think its a superbike thing, its a talent thing. If someone can't win a championship at the WSBK level they're not going to magically win at the Moto GP level, especially on an uncompetitive bike.

Looking at Hopkins I wouldn't call him a flop at all, he had an offer from Ducati last season and I'm sure Honda would've snatched him if they had the chance. Check out KRJR, he's gotten a podium and is a top five runner now, but when he was on the Suzuki Hopper pretty much beat him all the time. I don't think anyone in the paddock doubts that Hopkins would be doing damage if he had a better bike.

As far as guys like Mladin, there's no real point in taking a gamble on a guy like him because he doesn't have a lot of years of racing ahead of him. Sure, if it was clear he could make an impact right away then it'd make sense but for the factory teams they've gotta think long term and long term someone like Pedrosa, Stoner, Melandri, Hopper, Nicky, et al is a better investment. One of the satelitte teams might have taken him but Mat probably didn't want to waste his time with that.

In the end the young talented guys will get the rides if there are seats. Obviously winning the 250cc championship is worth more than the AMASBK or even the WSBK championship right now but its still a valid way to get in for those with the talent.

[Ginger]

Notice I said "young" guns.

Reading comprehension owns me.

Go home time now.

*edit* for clarity, I was pretty much agreeing with you in the above

[.RJ]

I wonder if the change to 4-strokes with big powerbands and lots of electronic controls (traction control, etc) favors the 250 riders coming in more than the superbike riders? With the 500 2-stroke, it was the other way around.

[Evan]

damn that TC sounds like ass