I know that myself, Mike, and Evan (among others) have expressed lust for the venerable E36 M3. I'm sure that most of the rest of you guys (and gals) wouldn't turn one down either  The point of this thread (in my mind), is to consolidate all of our knowledge, opinions, links, etc in one place. Some discussion starters:
OBD-I vs. OBD-II: 95 has OBD-I, everything newer is OBD-II. With regard to mods (especially forced induction), everything I've read suggests that OBD-I is the way to go. Discuss.
3.0 vs. 3.2: Was this change made due to OBD-II? Horsepower is the same, but does the power delivery move lower in the RPM range? Discuss.
Coupe vs. Sedan: Sedans were only made 97-98. Apparently slightly stiffer than the coupes due to the B pillar. Weight is the same. Is the suspension set up the same, or were changes made to accomodate the increased likelihood of rear passengers? Discuss.
Motorsports: BMW CCA has these things classed in Stock-I (or Prepared-C). I have no idea what that translates to as far as SCCA or NASA. Discuss.
That all I've got for now - have fun.
My two feet.
Since motorsports is my forte I'll comment on the M3 classing.
Currently in SCCA the E36 M3 can only run in T2. In T2 there have been some competitive M3's in the past but they're at a pretty significant disadvantage against the Camaro Z28. T2 is a pretty weak class regionally anyway so you'd end up racing in pretty small fields.
You could also run an M3 in ITE but ITE is pretty much a region by region oddball class. You could be running against Integra Type-R's or Porsche 911's.
In NASA I believe the M3 fits in under the new GTS Challenge group. The concept is similar to Honda Challenge but this class is pretty much made for Porsches and BMWs. They operate on a power to weight ratio classing scale so you could pretty much put your car wherever you want to. I'm not so sure this formula will take off but its a place to race.
For my money if I were intent on racing BMW bling I'd build a mild E36 325 to play around in GTS Challenge and ITS or maybe an E36 318 ti to run in ITA and GTS Challenge. Spec E30 is also a good place to run.
As simply a track car the E36 M3 is a great deal, especially now that the bottom is falling out on prices. There are several cars that would be a cheaper starting point and have a lot of potential but I can't really say anything can beat the M3's combination of handling, power, value, and reliability.
G.Irish Wrote:You could also run an M3 in ITE but ITE is pretty much a region by region oddball class.
Aren't there some limitations there regarding the age of the car? As in, anything in IT has to be X years out of production?
G.Irish Wrote:As simply a track car the E36 M3 is a great deal, especially now that the bottom is falling out on prices. There are several cars that would be a cheaper starting point and have a lot of potential but I can't really say anything can beat the M3's combination of handling, power, value, and reliability.
That's why I'm interested. Track/autox whore. As Jess and I have discussed, we just want one race car, one place to put our motorsport dollars...
mongooze Wrote:As Jess and I have discussed, we just want one race car, one place to put our motorsport dollars...
translation: as I have thought about with Jess in the same state, I want lots of race cars, but she'd probably kill me, so I'll settle for one. :lol:
1994 Ford Ranger
2004 Honda S2000
2007 BMW X3
Maengelito Wrote:mongooze Wrote:As Jess and I have discussed, we just want one race car, one place to put our motorsport dollars...
translation: as I have thought about with Jess in the same state, I want lots of race cars, but she'd probably kill me, so I'll settle for one. :lol:
Hehehe... It wasn't quite that bad, but I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't phrased the initial question to her without some idea of what would and wouldn't fly 8)
We were going to go down to OG Racing to try on helmets yesterday, but didn't get around to checking the website for directions until 2:15, and noticed that they close at 2:00 on Saturdays. She wants to do an HPDE later this summer, and will need a helmet that fits. Who am I to discourage this kind of behavior? Incidentally, we'll also need a track car. Like, for example, an E36 M3. Thread is now back on topic. Thank you, thank you.
Another question (or statement): Drivetrain flex and the infamous overrev. I haven't read anything definitive one way or the other regarding a fix for this vulnerability. Stiffer tranny/engine mounts? Shifter replacement? My first modifications to an E36 M3 will be to mitigate this issue as best I can. Discuss.
mongooze Wrote:3.0 vs. 3.2: Was this change made due to OBD-II? Horsepower is the same, but does the power delivery move lower in the RPM range? Discuss.
This would definitely be a car I consider buying as a capable street car. What kind of numbers do these engines put out? HP? Torque? 0-60mph? Quarter? thanks.
2017 Mineral White BMW M240i Cabriolet
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mongooze Wrote:OBD-I vs. OBD-II: 95 has OBD-I, everything newer is OBD-II. With regard to mods (especially forced induction), everything I've read suggests that OBD-I is the way to go. Discuss.
Coupe vs. Sedan: Weight is the same.
What is OBD-I/OBD-II and does anyone know how they managed to make them way the same, I would like to think that the coupe is less?
REED Wrote:What is OBD-I/OBD-II
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I'm busy now, I'll post up thoughts on other stuff tomorrow.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
Dunno if you've already seen this, but it made me kick myself for not considering them more seriously:
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scroll to Cannon's post..
john
2006 Evo MR #7 STU | 2016 Focus ST #7 GS daily | Class of '01 and 4 year owner of The Original Mr Spoiler Wing | project:BDR
some good info on the corner-carvers post there, so I won't bother re-visiting those questions. But, my 2 cents:
Yes, I'd stick with the '95 if possible, assuming you might want to play with the car a bit. They just get heavier as more crap gets added on in later years, and there's lots more options for extra power in the OBD1 system. Sure, you CAN get a later one, and convert back to OBD1-- it's more than I'd tackle, but is interesting if you feel like learning a lot about the car and have a lot of time. I wouldn't say no to a good deal on a later model, but just realize that if you decide you want another 30 or so HP, you're going to be spending a LOT of $$. If stock power is fine though, the later ones are just as good. And more plentiful in good condition.
Yes, the OBD2's are all 3.2, that's when that change was made. In stock form, this does make more power through the entire band, but a chip and intake on the OBD1 system would make up for it, and that's just the beginning... Ooh OOH, and if you do get a '95, and the engine dies for whatever reason, you can pop the 3.2 in for an OBD1 3.2. It's arguably easier than trying to convert OBD2 to 1.
You're right (from what I've heard many times) about the 4dr being slightly stiffer, and if the stock rear springs were a little stiffer with that, I don't know. And yes, the weights are almost the same 4dr/2dr. They did use many different springs depending on options, so I would guess they are slightly different. Nothing to worry about though, and some aftermarket springs clear all that up. :wink:
Gerald's right, it's probably not the best RACE CAR because of classing issues, but as a track car, it's great. As an autocross car... you could do better. It's pretty heavy, geared for higher speeds, and doesn't have enough low end power to make up for it like a mustang or 'vette does.
And the "money shift" issue. All 3 series have this problem. It just gets worse with the heavier M transmission. Solid mounts are the only cure but that's pretty harsh. Stiffer engine and trans mounts help. Ireland engineering sells both, UUC's stiffest trans mounts and a new set of engine mounts are the way I'd go. Bimmerworld also has a new driveline stabilizer that's supposed to solve the problem, I'd check that out too. Some stiff mounts and a gentle hand, and you'll never have a problem. You should try to minimize mid-corner shifts anyway, now you have another motivator. :wink: I never had a problem with it, and had the original mounts.
All in all, if I were going to spend something like 15k on a track car, I would get another E36 325. Then I'd have half the $$ left over for suspension, brakes, power mods, cage, diff, broken stuff, all kinds of goodies. And it'd rollanM any day. Really, with some basic suspension mods and a cam, it'll keep up with an M no problem, even in something close to a straight line. For a track AND autocross car, I know you'd considered a 'vette before, and if you like them, I'd be willing to admit it might be the better choice. :?
cannon's post makes ME want an E36, not I would have turned one down before this topic.
I got to ride with Cobetto out at CMP in his new M and I was absolutely amazed. The car handled incredibly (although his had a bit more body roll than I'm used to; I've been spoiled rotten by the IV) and felt like there was always power through every gear. As was said before, the E36 won't have the nads that a vette or stang would have, but you must remember that the displacement difference would leave this to be expected. Besides, you'll be driving a much more refined machine and it would appear that you would have much lower likelihood of it breaking on you in comparison to those other choices. The more I read about these cars, the more I like them, and they look fabulous to boot.
John's still gonna get rolled 
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
i could definately see RJ in an abercrombie shirt behind the wheel of a M3 with 22s on it :lol:
.RJ Wrote:John's still gonna get rolled
I'm just looking for something agile enough to keep from getting punted by asshiles driving Rs...
Regarding C4 Corvettes - I was a bit scared of by the maintenance horror stories and costs. This next question is geared more towards Channing with his BimmerWorld experience: Generally, what are maintenance costs like on the E36 M3? The CC thread linked above had some insight with costs on various wear items, which frankly aren't significantly higher than my F-150. So, discuss.
Regarding maintenance..... it doesnt seem any worse than any other car for track use. Once the common issues have been addressed (water pump, shock mounts, tranny mounts, etc) they seem to be pretty bulletproof and I dont think you could go wrong if the car has been taken care of.
There's no cheap track cars though. Either spend more up front for a solid car, or buy a cheap pile that eats up your time, patience and budget.
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
I'm prolly gonna go with a '99 since I want it for street-duty only. I like low miles and things not breaking
Hachi will remain track/autox slizz.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
MichaelJComputer Wrote:I'm prolly gonna go with a '99 since I want it for street-duty only. I like low miles and things not breaking
Hachi will remain track/autox slizz.
great, now we get to hear about the Mike Money tree...
1996 BMW 328is white │ 89 BMW 325i track car │84 BMW 325e for sale!│Past: 94 Honda Del Sol S, 2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited, 1996 BMW 328i
e30/e36 parts for sale... PM me
Weeeee!
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
I'd have to mirror RJ's response on the maintenance thing. They're a capable track car and age gracefully, even when driven hard.
Expect a few electrical gremlins, mostly sensors and lights (you WILL have trouble with the tail lights, I guarantee) that set off worthless codes in the check control computer and you can often ignore. Ignition system and emissions control stuff are designed well and last longer than in most cars, heck, you don't even have plug wires to dick around with.
You'll probably throw a couple hundred $$ into the cooling system every few years. Even with the metal impeller water pump (~$75), the alum thermo housing (~$30), and new hoses (~$120), the radiators are plastic junk. Keep an eye on it, replace every few years (~$150), or spend $600 on a Fluidyne or some such kick-ass thing, might be worth it.
The engines were really designed to be black boxes, change the fluids now and then and don't over-rev it, and it'll last a long long time. You'll probably have to replace the VANOS unit at some point (~$300), valve cover gasket (~$20), and replace the chain tensioner as well (less than $100 to get it all back together), but everything else is designed for 200k+ miles. Even the exhaust system is built to last a long time.
Even accessories have good service life, alternator/starter/PS pump rarely fail. AC system is a little weak, you'll probably get some climate control gremlins and/or develop a slow leak that'll cost you a couple bucks of 134a before each summer, assuming you don't tear it all out. :wink:
The main fan clutch on the front of the engine will stop engaging or lock up, and you'll remove the fan, never to be seen again.
Suspension and brakes are very solid. The rear control arms already have bearings instead of bushings and will last forever. You'll probably get a bad balljoint in a front control arm eventually and replace both the arms for $300. Stock bushings in rear trailing arm and front control arm last pretty well and fail gracefully, drive them 'till they're dead and get some urethane. Spring kits and shock choices are aplenty, replace rear shock mounts with something better while you're at it. Stock brakes with OE (inexpensive) rotors will be trouble free with some good pads and fluid. Caliper rebuild kits (~$15ea) and a new master cyl (this is like $350 for the M3, I don't know why) may be needed at some point, probably not.
The rest of the drivetrain is solid too. Other than the mounts, you might need to replace the flex disc at some point (~$80), but the diff and tranny are built to handle the power. Go with synthetic fluids and avoid drag racing or powershifting and they'll last forever.
Basically, I don't think I know any E36 owners that have spent nearly as much on replacement and maintenance as they have modifications. That'll be the only money pit. 8) The car's ready to play with.
When I graduate, if there are still no official plans for the mazdaspeed rx8, then it's gonna be a close race between e36 m3 and 3rd gen RX7 for me. Depends on whether I buy a beater civic or not for commuting duties.
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