Accident in Springfield

[damnit458]

For the last few months I have been slowly talking with my parents, edging them towards allowing me to buy a motorcycle. They were both concerned about my safety, but were both slowly coming to see my points, and I dont think I would have had much of a problem picking up a bike in a few months.

At about 9:30 this morning my dad called me. On his way to play golf this morning he was merging onto 395 when he looked and saw pieces of a motorcycle and a guys arm fly infront of his car. He stopped and called 911 and stayed there until they got there, only to see them "collect" the rest of the guy and the motorcycle. Obviously I hope this wasnt any of you guys, and Im fairly sure none of you live near the backlick road exit of 395. My dad said he wasn't totally sure what happened (either the guy was merging onto or off of 395 and got hit).

Anyway, any chance of myself getting a bike this summer are now gone. In the past my parents were not going to support me at all, but were not going to really fight me getting one. Now they dont want one anywhere near there house. To be totally fair I dont think its myself riding that scares them as much as myself riding in Northern Virginia. So essentially I have to wait atleast till this fall to start riding.

Anyway, just thought id share. Its amazing the turn of events one day can bring. I hope that the guy hit was not a friend of any of yours or you guys yourself.

[ScottyB]

sorry to hear about your luck and the accident. maybe your parents were meant to see that, who knows. besides, you have your whole life to ride a bike, and if you're in DC you might as well take your time what with the way people drive up there

[Sijray21]

wow...that sounds like a pretty disgusting accident hock:

not sure of the details of whether it is the fault of the rider or a driver. Either way...not a good outcome. Merging onto or off of 395 is NOT fun, especially on a bike. I try to avoid it at all costs.

As for living near there, i do. I live about 5 minutes away from the mixing bowl. Somewhat near the backlick road on/off ramp.

I'm sorry that this had an affect on your ability to ride soon, but i do believe that things happen for a reason. If you remain sensible and calm with them, they still might allow you to have a bike in hburg.

[damnit458]

I'm sorry that this had an affect on your ability to ride soon, but i do believe that things happen for a reason. If you remain sensible and calm with them, they still might allow you to have a bike in hburg.

Yeah, thats essentially what we worked out. I dont mind waiting a few months till I get back to school to help give them peace of mind. I never heard anything else about the accident, and whos fault it was =-/

[Feersty]

Limiting your exposure is key.

[.RJ]

Limiting your exposure is key.

Yeah, its hard to get involved in an accident if you ride only a few hundred miles and then sell the bike.

But, for the rest of us, riding defensive, always being aware of your surroundings and making yourself as visible as possible seems to work pretty well. I just assume that not only do people not see me, but that they're trying to run me over.

[Ginger]

Interesting fact: Hour by hour, you're no less likely to have a plane crash than you are a car crash. In that scenario your limited exposure is what keeps you from likely ever being involed in a plane crash.

There are, however, TONS of people that go without ever causing an accident and managing to avoid everything public roads throw at them. How? They're experienced. I've put some stupid amount of miles on my bike and I've NEVER been hit by another car. I've acquired enough skills to, relatively safely, ride on the street reliably. Limited exposure isn't the key - maximum exposure is the key. I ride when it's 25* out as long as it's not snowing. You're never going to train yourself to react properly if you don't spend any time riding.

Professional sportsmen don't get better by only spending a few minutes training each month. They get better by devoting their lives to improvement. The same principle applies here.

[Mike]

Limiting your exposure is key.

Yeah, its hard to get involved in an accident if you ride only a few hundred miles and then sell the bike.

:lol:

[Sijray21]

you know...i've been cruising the dc bike forums and i haven't heard anything about this either...? i would think something this catastrophic would be a headliner

[damnit458]

Yeah as would I. I know it did happen however as my mom told me she caught the tail end of it (after the cops were there), but beyond that I dont know much.[/url]

[Evan]

Interesting fact: Hour by hour, you're no less likely to have a plane crash than you are a car crash. In that scenario your limited exposure is what keeps you from likely ever being involed in a plane crash.

interesting. id be interested in seeing your reference on that data

[Evan]

But, for the rest of us, riding defensive, always being aware of your surroundings and making yourself as visible as possible seems to work pretty well. I just assume that not only do people not see me, but that they're trying to run me over.

your own preparation and actions are only a small component of the equation. You can be the safest rider on the road and still turn into a bloody snot smeer on the pavement. Im only willing to mitigate so much risk onto the actions of other people. Riding a bike puts too much of my life into other jackknobs hands. This is why I find riding a motorcycle in DC/Nova to be an unacceptable risk

[Ginger]

Interesting fact: Hour by hour, you're no less likely to have a plane crash than you are a car crash. In that scenario your limited exposure is what keeps you from likely ever being involed in a plane crash.

interesting. id be interested in seeing your reference on that data

It's a citation from Freakonomics by Stephen Levitt from the University of Chicago. He didn't present the data on the page that the statement was made, but I'll check to see if he's got it, or a citation of the report he's talking about when I get home.

[.RJ]

You can be the safest rider on the road and still turn into a bloody snot smeer on the pavement.

I'm invincible.

[G.Irish]

your own preparation and actions are only a small component of the equation.

Actually its a LARGE component of the equation. 45% of fatal motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents as a result of handlebar actuator malfunction. Of the about 8 to 11 motorcycle accidents I know about first hand or "friend of a friend" all but maybe 2 of them were single vehicle accidents as a result of overaggressive riding.

Some interesting facts from the 2001 NHTSA report "Fatal Single Vehicle Motorcycle Crashes"

* Helmet use among fatally injured motorcyclists below 50 percent
* More motorcyclist fatalities are occurring on rural roads
* High blood alcohol levels are a major problem among motorcycle operators
* Half of the fatalities are related to negotiating a curve prior to the crash
* Undivided roadways account for a majority of the fatalities
* Almost two thirds of the fatalities were associated with speeding as an operator contributing factor in the crash
* Collision with a fixed object is a significant factor in over half of the fatalities
* Braking and steering maneuvers possibly contribute for almost 25 percent of the fatalities
* Almost one third of the fatally injured operators did not have a proper license

The full report is here (PDF): <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/809-360.pdf">http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle- ... 09-360.pdf</a><!-- m -->

[Evan]

your own preparation and actions are only a small component of the equation.

Actually its a LARGE component of the equation. 45% of fatal motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents as a result of handlebar actuator malfunction. Of the about 8 to 11 motorcycle accidents I know about first hand or "friend of a friend" all but maybe 2 of them were single vehicle accidents as a result of overaggressive riding.

Some interesting facts from the 2001 NHTSA report "Fatal Single Vehicle Motorcycle Crashes"

* Helmet use among fatally injured motorcyclists below 50 percent
* More motorcyclist fatalities are occurring on rural roads
* High blood alcohol levels are a major problem among motorcycle operators
* Half of the fatalities are related to negotiating a curve prior to the crash
* Undivided roadways account for a majority of the fatalities
* Almost two thirds of the fatalities were associated with speeding as an operator contributing factor in the crash
* Collision with a fixed object is a significant factor in over half of the fatalities
* Braking and steering maneuvers possibly contribute for almost 25 percent of the fatalities
* Almost one third of the fatally injured operators did not have a proper license

The full report is here (PDF): <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/809-360.pdf">http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle- ... 09-360.pdf</a><!-- m -->

no, you are talking about the results, not the equation. apples and oranges, and 2 separate arguments. Just because 3/4 of guys on bikes are morons doing stupid shit, doesnt mean that not being a moron and not doing stupid shit makes it safe or has an acceptable level of risk. It just means that being an idiot compounds the problem.
The equation will always be that as a motorcycle rider your fate is in other drivers on the road drastically more than a 4 wheeler. Its simple physics. The agressiveness of drivers in an urban area, large vehicles with large blindspots, and the increasing attitude as driving being a secondary activity to other activities while in the car just makes it worse.

Ive said it before, everyone has their own acceptable level of risk. If you dont find riding to violate your own personal level, then do your thang, and dont get bent out of shape when I dont agree. But dont go into it thinking that just because you wear a padded jacket and boots, and dont screw around (and you probably will anyway, right RJ?) that you will be always be fine, or as fine as you would be in a car

[Feersty]

Limiting your exposure is key.

Yeah, its hard to get involved in an accident if you ride only a few hundred miles and then sell the bike.

Exactly. My parents worried about my well-being and my mom was a basketcase whenever I went out riding. I also needed spending money for the month I spent in Deutschland. So sue me! :roll:

[G.Irish]

no, you are talking about the results, not the equation. apples and oranges, and 2 separate arguments.

If you are saying the reason you don't ride is because some component of your safety is out of your control then you'd be correct.

I am saying that the rider is the largest factor in whether or not you have a motorcycle accident. People seem to think that mistakes by car drivers are the main reason riders get into accidents and that's just not true.

That doesn't mean that riding can be 100% safe or that if you get proper training, wear proper safety gear, and ride intelligently that you won't get hurt in accident. It just means that you can drastically reduce your risk by doing so.

[Ginger]

Limiting your exposure is key.

Yeah, its hard to get involved in an accident if you ride only a few hundred miles and then sell the bike.

Exactly. My parents worried about my well-being and my mom was a basketcase whenever I went out riding. I also needed spending money for the month I spent in Deutschland. So sue me! :roll:

He was being sarcastic.

I've had two accidents - but your number of accidents vs. number of miles travelled on two wheels is exponentially worse than mine. I've done about 45,000 miles since I for my first motorcycle. 2 accidents makes that one accident in 22,500 miles, Yours, however, is 1 in 300 miles... kinda lays waste to the "minimize your time on the bike and you won't crash when you do ride it" argument. I expect that the equation only looks worse if you do it hour by hour.

The rider is a HUGE factor in the equation, no bones about it... and you don't get better by playing video games or driving to work in a car.

Oh, and response to Evan: I looked through Freakonomics for the actual data Levitt used to reach his conclusion on flying vs driving. He didn't cite a specifc data source and didn't present statistics themselves. The section he made the remark in is attributed to work from Peter Sandman, a risk assesment consultant (<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.psandman.com">www.psandman.com</a><!-- w -->). It could be incorrect or 'gray' material, but the rest of the book is very well noted and pretty much everything he references is in the bibliography, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt (plus, studying economics at GMU I naturally believe that all good things come from the University of Chicago).. but I wouldn't blame anybody for saying "no data, no truth."

[G.Irish]

You could probably come up with the data yourself actually if you did some research. I'm sure NHTSA has stats on number of drivers in the US and average hours driven per year. Then FAA probably has stats on number of flights and hours aloft or average distance flown and number of passengers per year.

Sounds plausible if nothing else.