Buells pic at Daytona

[scottcj]

Sorry couldn't resist posting this :lol:

[JohnC]

:lol: Awesome.

[PDenbigh]

:-(

[derilict]

Buell has so much potential, too friggin' bad they're owned by Harley-Davidson.

[.RJ]

Buell has so much potential, too friggin' bad they're owned by Harley-Davidson.

:?:

[G.Irish]

Actually the only reason Buell is alive is Harley Davidson. Engine wise it kind of limits them because HD makes almost all air-cooled pushrod twins but they're certainly not wanting for capital.

What would really be a boon for Buell is if they were able to make a dohc watercooled v-twin or a V4 so they can compete heads up with the other sporty manufacturers.

Either way its good to see them in racing. Unfortunately I think the politics over the legality of the XBRR could marr the positive effect of them racing.

[HAULN-SS]

Obviously you guys are talking about road course racing - but I heard somewhere that the H-D drag bikes were forced to run restrictior plates a la nascar, true?

[G.Irish]

Yeah they might have done something to slow the V-Rods as I recall that they were doing pretty well. I don't follow drag racing at all so I have no real idea.

[scottcj]

It's ironic that supposively the part that gave out on the Buell was a Japanese made part....but then again "made in America" Harley-Davidsons are actually made in Korea and Taiwan

[G.Irish]

Really??? They make Harleys overseas? Wow, I didn't know that.

What failed on the ole Buells anyway? I heard it was transmission related.

[.RJ]

Did you guys have anything constructive to add other than "buells suck they're made by harley" ?

If there's a reason for their technologically inferior design, then by all means bring the tech, but otherwise I think they're a neat bike.

I dont agree with the way AMA handle the FX situation with Buell, but thats not the fault of Buell, they pushed the envelope and AMA let them get their foot in the door.

[G.Irish]

Well remember RJ, Buell had a bad rep for quality up until a few years ago. It takes awhile for people's perceptions to turn around, which is why a successful race program would work wonders.

To be honest I'm not surprised they didn't finish the race. It seems like they didn't have much time (if any) to test the bikes since it was sort of a last hour idea from what I gather.

[HAULN-SS]

Well, it's also a brand new brand. And uh..H-D made in taiwan and korea? What are those massive plants in Milwaukee and York PA for then?

[derilict]

Buell's don't suck, I think they're damn cool bikes. In fact I just sat on a bright yellow XB9R the other day at the H-D dealer. The point I was making had more to do with real-world Buell riding, not racing. I've had several conversations with different Buell riders, and the biggest gripe about the bike was that 1) they had to purchase it from a H-D dealer, and 2) they had to get it serviced at said H-D dealer. I got the impression that some (I'm not saying all) Harley guys could give two shits about Buell's, so that makes owning one and having one serviced at a H-D shop turn out to be an excercise in frustration. But what do I know, I haven't purchased one yet. I have serously considered an XB12 or XB9 though.

As far as racing the things, I know nothing other than the Mr. Buell guy was a hard-core roadracer back in the day.

[Ginger]

Buell isn't really a new brand... as an entity of Harley Davidson it is, but Erik Buell has been building bikes under his name since the 80's. Their quality sucked before the Harley Davidson purchase because they were lacking for capital in pretty much all areas of development and production. Largely the Harley purchase has been a great thing. Harley has financed Buell's successful and unsuccesful ideas - a lot of the unique items you seen on Buells, the perimiter brake discs, fuel in frame, oil in swingarm (which are quickly becoming very popular applications), muffler under bike, etc. probably couldn't have seen the light of day without Harley's pocketbook. A couple folks have argued, and I'm not sure if I agree with it, that the engine selection Buell has is hurting them.

Everybody knows already that Buell's bike use modified 883 and 1200 Sportster powerplants. They're heavy, air cooled, underpowered, radial twins. There's nothing special about them - but they're drop dead simple and they've been around since the dawn of time... hell when was the last time you actually saw a crank with on ONE crankpin? The high torque design of the Buell gives the riders a lot of "room" to work with (one the street most riders don't really have to change gears once they reach the roads they have fun on) and we've already seen that they can make massive power. The Harley motor is stupid reliable... 'Tona isn't really a measure of how reliable a bike is in reality, it's a measure of how much testing a team has done, like Gerald said. Look at the giant fairing the Buell used, for example. Everybody knows that frontal area is a very large factor of aerodynamics but the damn bikes looked like E cup Barbies compared to the rest of the field - and big V-twin advantage is how narrow the motor is. I bet we'll see it shrink next year... and I bet we'll see most of them finish.

Does anybody know if Buell will be racing anywhere else on the FX calendar?

As far as the Buell's owners gripes - wtf? You bought a brand name, why would you expect to have it serviced at somebody else's dealer? That, and last time I checked it's a lot easier for me to get to a Harley Davidson dealer than it is to get to a licensed "generic sportbike" dealer. I have also ALWAYS had a better experience at Fort Washington Harley Davidson than I have at any other motorcycle dealership, ever... so I think that's kind of a moot point.

Actually, story time. The last time I was at Fort Washington Harley I was riding a friend's Lightning XB9 to pick up some parts for him. The local BRAG (buell rider's group) chapter was having a meeting out front. I did the meet and greet thing, explained that the bike wasn't mine, and they invited me out for the next meeting on my VFR anyways. Moreover, after I finished my business inside I went over to the FREE cookout the dealer has every Saturday and had a hot dog and a coke. My experience has been that the Harley dealerships that were around long before the fad will treat you just like it's 1950 and you're hitchiking across the country on a couple dollars - they'll help you however they can. Don't expect the Teutels or Patriot Harley to treat you that way, though. Which brings me to my next point. Those Harley Guys who don't give two shits about Buell are the fad crowd - the rich, obnoxious, poser folk. They don't like anybody that doesn't pose the way they do, and you find that group in every hobby in existance (and there are sportbikers like that, too... posers on R6's find it not-so-funny when I can ride their wheels off on an '87 700 with bias-plys). There's been a lot of judgement passed lately on both both Buell as a company, mostly because of Daytona, and Harley, because of their relatively recent introduction to the Robb Report. A lot of that judgement is misguided - the same folks here that think things like "Harleys and Buells suck because they're Harleys" don't know the crowd that was around before the rise to fame, and really show their naievite' when it comes to riding. We would be the hypocrites if we propogated these stereotypes, just like everybody who passes on the word that MM is "just a bunch of stupid streetracers."

[scottcj]

Well, it's also a brand new brand. And uh..H-D made in taiwan and korea? What are those massive plants in Milwaukee and York PA for then?

They're for assembling the parts. Do you think Harley actually pays people here to machine and stamp all their parts in the USA? No once they are made here as prototypes they are outsourced to Asia (mostly Taiwan). Trust me I've been around dealerships my entire life and I've worked on Harley's long enough to know what the label on the boxes says.

[scottcj]

Look at the giant fairing the Buell used, for example. Everybody knows that frontal area is a very large factor of aerodynamics but the damn bikes looked like E cup Barbies compared to the rest of the field - and big V-twin advantage is how narrow the motor is. I bet we'll see it shrink next year... and I bet we'll see most of them finish.
"

That's a trait that goes back to Buell racebikes made in the 1980s. Erik Buell always had real wide front sections with curvey tails on his race bikes. Mostly it's made up from aerodynamic tests conducted in the late 1970s and early 1980s by Erik Buell himself and by Harley for a bike they never produced. I agree if the Buells stick around then times will catch up with them and they will begin to look like the Japanese bikes.

[Ginger]

Look at the giant fairing the Buell used, for example. Everybody knows that frontal area is a very large factor of aerodynamics but the damn bikes looked like E cup Barbies compared to the rest of the field - and big V-twin advantage is how narrow the motor is. I bet we'll see it shrink next year... and I bet we'll see most of them finish.
"

That's a trait that goes back to Buell racebikes made in the 1980s. Erik Buell always had real wide front sections with curvey tails on his race bikes. Mostly it's made up from aerodynamic tests conducted in the late 1970s and early 1980s by Erik Buell himself and by Harley for a bike they never produced. I agree if the Buells stick around then times will catch up with them and they will begin to look like the Japanese bikes.

Damn, good call. Is the bike you're talking about that they never produced this one?


VR1000, never made it to production.
Damn shame, too... it just got itself walked left and right. But I do agree, if they keep this "racing thing" up then they'll surely catch up soon.

[scottcj]

Look at the giant fairing the Buell used, for example. Everybody knows that frontal area is a very large factor of aerodynamics but the damn bikes looked like E cup Barbies compared to the rest of the field - and big V-twin advantage is how narrow the motor is. I bet we'll see it shrink next year... and I bet we'll see most of them finish.
"

That's a trait that goes back to Buell racebikes made in the 1980s. Erik Buell always had real wide front sections with curvey tails on his race bikes. Mostly it's made up from aerodynamic tests conducted in the late 1970s and early 1980s by Erik Buell himself and by Harley for a bike they never produced. I agree if the Buells stick around then times will catch up with them and they will begin to look like the Japanese bikes.

Damn, good call. Is the bike you're talking about that they never produced this one?


VR1000, never made it to production.
Damn shame, too... it just got itself walked left and right. But I do agree, if they keep this "racing thing" up then they'll surely catch up soon.

No I don't remember the name of the bike, I'll have to look it up but it was sometime in the very late 1970s....Kenny Roberts era. The VR1000 is another one of those bikes like the new Buell that caused a little controversy due to not being based on production bike. There are a few other bikes like that have raced in WSB as well so it's not just AMA FX that has the issue of production based models.

[Goodspeed]

This is my favorite looking sport bike ever....the XB12R....just look at the damn thing!!!